Hello guys,
Ive been wondering how to defend yourself as lannister  when gj decides To take riverrun at the first turn, or just be agressive in the  early  rounds. Lannister  cards just  cant match greyjoy's. Balon  and aeron ruin all my attempts To counter his agresssion...

How do you  usually deal with this situation?

Many  thanks dear lords

I'm no expert on any of these houses, but when I play Lanni and GJ is not amenable to an alliance, then I usually put CP* on Lannisport, CP on Stoney Sept, and M+1 on the Golden Sound. I will take Sunset Sea on my march (unless GJ has a march on his ship, in which case I swap it with the raven to a D+2)and muster a ship in Golden Sound (or the port if I didn't take Sunset Sea) and a footman. If no muster comes up, taking Riverrun is easy with a  S+1 in SS and a M+1 in LP. You can use Kevan for a free win, but GJ might retreat to Harrenhal. You can also gamble and use Cersei to ruin his turn. But if he plays Aeron, he could win the battle. If Greyjoy put his knight in RR, I like to use Gregor and kill it. That leaves GJ with only two footmen until he can muster.

Now, if a muster does come up, I will muster a siege engine in Lannisport and do the same thing. Just make sure you support with the siege engine from Stoney Sept so you don't lose it to a counterattack. I'm more likely to play Gregor in that situation if GJ musters units in Riverrun.

After that, it's a cat-and-mouse game of attrition. You cannot prevent Greyjoy from taking the Golden Sound, but you can harass his navy and try to bait out high cards and eventually take it back. The key is to have a support force in Stoney Sept to defend Lannisport and Riverrun. Once you set that up, you should be able to fend off GJ.

Of course, a GJ-Lannister war makes Stark very happy. A competent Stark player will exploit the war and win the game -- very little anyone can do to stop him. So I've found that a Lanni-GJ alliance is almost always a better option for everyone, except for possibly Tyrell.

I am not an expert and have not been playing very long, but hopefully I can add something. I was in that situation before and read up on a lot of the strategy discussion to try and prepare for next time.

The annoying thing is that, against a Greyjoy player who makes no mistakes, you have a very very difficult time winning. You're mostly dependent on luck, and can't give him anything to capitalize on.

Here is a game I played where I had a decent chance of knocking GJ out of the picture until I very foolishly did not take Pyke. Once again, someone more experienced and skilled than me feel free to submit a better example of how to fight a Greyjoy. https://game.thronemaster.net/?review=1&force=1&game=158112 This is also with me agreeing to ally with him, and him backstabbing me on turn one, which led to sub-optimal play that first turn.

The main strategies for opening that I've seen are to CP* on Lannisport, Raid or Defense +2 on the ship, and March+1 on Stoney Sept. However, you can also March - 1 on Lannisport, March +1 on Stoney Sept, and Defense/Raid/Support on the ship. The big advantage, of course, is that you can change your order to throw off whatever Greyjoy is doing, and also that you can muster troops. So, going off that...

You can muster ships in the Golden Sound to try and counter Greyjoy at sea. This is necessary for a naval battle, which is still an uphill fight. You can also build a siege engine which will basically guarantee you taking back Riverrun (holding it is a different story). The most important thing is not to give Greyjoy access to the Golden Sound and Riverrun at the same time. If he has those, he can not only stop your mustering with impunity (assuming you fall behind him on the IT track and don't have a ship in port) and also muster ships into the bay. Of course, the flip side of that is that if you can seize Riverrun, he leaves IMB open, and there's a mustering, you can muster ships into the bay and take advantage of move order to take Pyke before he can do anything else about it. There are also some strategies that suggest taking a ship into the Sunset Sea if he attacks your ship first turn - with the Defense +2 order you can bait out one of his stronger cards, which is good. From the Sunset Sea, you can raid his support, or force him to waste a support raiding your lone ship. He also will then be divided (assuming he doesn't get a 2nd turn muster), with one ship in the Golden Sound, one in Pyke Port. This is still not ideal but it's something. Try and avoid using Tywin and Gregor early - you'll need Gregor to deliver a really crushing defeat, and use Cersei (you can see one of my few really good moves in that game was where I used Cersei) to really throw off their game if you can ensure a victory (Stoney Sept support and

Alliances are also very crucial. Try and strike up something with Tyrell (if possible, avoid showing too much weakness during your fight with Greyjoy, as Tyrell is fond of coming up north to "help out" ). You can also get Tyrell to put down supports in WSS for you in Sunset Sea (this dependent on Martell as well). Allying with Stark is usually fine, as they have only things to gain from it and can quietly grow stronger while you and Greyjoy pummel each other. Baratheon can also help you with tiebreaks.

Another big problem is power tokens, which I found myself running out of a lot during my prolonged fight with Greyjoy. It's really difficult to set up a reliable PT farm, so try and get those whenever you can, as you'll likely lose the IT track or the raven. Losing either one to Greyjoy is very bad, and hard to avoid, as he can safely PT farm in Pyke port/GWW.

Hope any of that helped.

Last edited by LastDayFOXHOUND on 2018-May-03 17:28, edited 1x in total

Another big problem is power tokens
That's why I almost alwyas CP in Stoney Sept turn 1. Greyjoy usually puts CP in GWW and the port. If he doesn't use Aeron, he'll have 7 PTs if a clash comes up after turn 1. If you march from SS and drop a token, you'll be down to 4. That's not a good place to be. If you CP instead, you'll both be at 7. Plus, you will retain the ability to put a support order on Stoney Sept turn 2 and march into it from Lannisport, which will protect your siege engine (if you mustered one), and help defend Lannisport if GJ takes the Golden Sound, which he almost always does.

Again, I haven't won a single game with Lannister, so I might be completely off base. But I find I put up a better fight against an aggressive GJ by farming turn 1.

If you march from SS and drop a token
Well, thats something you shouldnt be doing EVER.

First of all, you are investing a token to potentially get one back and you would need 2x GoT untiul its worth it.
Besides that, SS is a territory which will be never unoccupied except in the very first rounds, so a token there is just 1 token to have less at max.

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"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." , Terry Pratchett

Well, thats something you shouldnt be doing EVER.
Fair enough. But marching from Stoney Sept to Riverrun accomplishes only two things -- it forces both Lannister and Greyjoy to use a card, and it gives you a potential muster point in Harrenhal. (Marching to Harrenhal directly saves the cards.) Is that worth the loss of two PT and not being able to support from Stoney Sept (and marching units into it from Lannisport)? Maybe it is. In my experience, I lose either way.

Number one priority, even above keeping Lannisport, is to keep your ships alive.  Once he finishes off your navy, it's over (unless it's a complete blue moon scenario where Stark simultaneously wipes out his entire land army).

To that end you need CP* in Lannisport right away.  Make a ship in the port and siege engine.  In GS, you should start with a +2 Def, retreat to Sunset if he attacks.

Turn 2 greatly depends on the Westeros cards, but presuming there is not much action, you will be sending an overwhelming march on Riverrun right away. Cersei should be your first choice, if she can definitely win, otherwise Kevan or Gregor are options (remembering that Aeron makes any sort of card gamble a foolish bet).

Keep in mind that Greyjoy has limited order options to start with, and use the raven to counter different lays as much as you can.

MAKE ALLIANCES.  Your biggest problem is that Tyrell starts slow by nature, and Stark has very little incentive to get involved right away.  But if you can hold Greyjoy off for a round or so, a single support or raid order can go a long way to helping your cause.

Tokens are a big problem, which means you need Tywin to come through for you.  Don't be afraid to use him on a battle Jaime can win, if the cash count is low and close. And if Clash does come early, you may be better off abandoning the rave and trying to snag the blade.  If you do, it's a huge swing; it means you only need an initial combat str advantage of 1 to beat Balon, rather than 4.  And if Greyjoy is coming at you right away, it's unlikely that you have enough units to need extra march orders, or safe places to play Cp*.  Special orders are still better than regular, but the deterrent factor of holding the blade is enormous, particularly as Cersei and Gregor give it some real teeth.

One of the huge advantages Lannister has in GoT is to use the raven and know the wildlings card. That is one aspect that is missing which really puts a strain on a Lannister player.

The wildlings card (and knowledge of it) allows the player to know if he/she needs to stockpile tokens, and allows a strategy to be built around that card.

However as the game is now, I play Lannister one of 2 ways:

Friendly GJ:
Build as many land units as possible, keep bouncing CP* between lannisport and riverrun with a March in the other, leaving behind only a footman. While doing this keep CP in stoney Sept and Lannisport port. Build such a land army so that even if/when GJ betrays you, they can't take Lannisport. Win by flooding the lands with enless units. Usually hard to win eith 7 castles unless Tyrell and Martell are vengeful with each other. Try to win with 6 Castles after turn 10.

Enemy GJ:
Keep surviving and collect tokens, while ensuring GJ stays poor. Act weak and quickly enlist Stark and Tyrell to help you survive. Like mentioned above GJ has no killing power so you should be able to lose lots of battles and not actually have your units die. When the bid finally comes, enlist an ally to win the throne, beat GJ on fiefdom, and get at least 1 star. With a poor GJ, this shouldn't be too challenging.

It is a difficult house to survive with if you set yourself up bad, but is one of the most satisfying to win with in ny experience, as you need to be very clever.

Best of luck in the future!

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In the Game of Thrones you either win, or you bitch about losing and how you should have won if so and so didn't backstab you and ruin the game.

One of the huge advantages Lannister has in GoT is to use the raven and know the wildlings card. That is one aspect that is missing which really puts a strain on a Lannister player.

The wildlings card (and knowledge of it) allows the player to know if he/she needs to stockpile tokens, and allows a strategy to be built around that card.

However as the game is now, I play Lannister one of 2 ways:

Friendly GJ:
Build as many land units as possible, keep bouncing CP* between lannisport and riverrun with a March in the other, leaving behind only a footman. While doing this keep CP in stoney Sept and Lannisport port. Build such a land army so that even if/when GJ betrays you, they can't take Lannisport. Win by flooding the lands with enless units. Usually hard to win eith 7 castles unless Tyrell and Martell are vengeful with each other. Try to win with 6 Castles after turn 10.

Enemy GJ:
Keep surviving and collect tokens, while ensuring GJ stays poor. Act weak and quickly enlist Stark and Tyrell to help you survive. Like mentioned above GJ has no killing power so you should be able to lose lots of battles and not actually have your units die. When the bid finally comes, enlist an ally to win the throne, beat GJ on fiefdom, and get at least 1 star. With a poor GJ, this shouldn't be too challenging.

It is a difficult house to survive with if you set yourself up bad, but is one of the most satisfying to win with in ny experience, as you need to be very clever.

Best of luck in the future!
I agree generally (with the signature line in particular), but a couple of small points on Friendly GJ:

1) CP in Stoney Sept is not very tenable after round 1-2.  You need it as a base of support to keep Bara/Tyrell at bay.

2) You also don't even mention the possibility of backstabbing, which I think is more likely to produce a victory than grinding out overland.  Once you have 6 supply and some stars, you can make a 4 ship navy on very short notice, so keep an eye out for openings where GJ has overextended himself and does not have Balon/Euron to defend a quick attack on Ironman Bay.  Keeping Tyrion on hand can be crucial for this, or Cersei for a surprise siege attack on Seagard, to remove a sea support/defense to open up the path to Pyke.

^ Agree with your 2nd point. Have to manage avoid over extending yourself to the south/east if that is your end game strategy. Only challenge is that really relies on a greyjoy that doesn't manage their cards or bidding well, but definitley has worked.

Bad bidding/token management helped me win this one:
https://game.thronemaster.net/?review=1&game=168875

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In the Game of Thrones you either win, or you bitch about losing and how you should have won if so and so didn't backstab you and ruin the game.