Most users ever online was 263 on 2020-Apr-18 20:02
Users in total:
Newest user:
28 users online:
22,049
TheGreenGorilla
snufkin_1301 11 hours ago

cmon 1 more

snufkin_1301 11 hours ago

3pl live 1 more

snufkin_1301 12 hours ago

+1 3pl live

smssf 12 hours ago

someone for a 3p? 2/3

smssf 12 hours ago

2/3

smssf 12 hours ago

1/3

smssf 12 hours ago

2/3

smssf 13 hours ago

2/3

smssf 13 hours ago

1/3

smssf 13 hours ago

2/3 hostless 3p live please

Ayak 13 hours ago

I'm also up for live

smssf 13 hours ago

any mot to create hostless games»?

smssf 13 hours ago

hostless 3p live please

smssf 14 hours ago

hostless 3p live please

smssf 14 hours ago

live please

ljskop 14 hours ago

2/3

D_jaja 14 hours ago

2/3

Ayak 14 hours ago

2/3 live unrated

D_jaja 15 hours ago

Come on Lords 3P live up

D_jaja 15 hours ago

2/3

Don't talk down to me.



Community Forum
Search |  


12
Author
Message
Necrarch
Knight of Ni

Posts: 2,037
Games: 135
Rank Points: 1,003
Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Feb-20 16:37
One additional thing about Paxter Redwyne though : he is, like Saladhor, a 1-card.
That means with 1 ship he behaves like a 2-card, with 2-ships a 3, etc.

You need more than 4 ships in hand to make him a super stong card. On the other hand, with a Def+1 order + him, you have a def of 3 against a Martell player and can still keep your Mace. Tyrell to get his fleet wiped away needs to either face the Red Vyper (that may happen but it can only be used once so it is risky) or to be beaten twice at least (in WSS and Redwyne Straights).

I therefore do believe it can be a valid card to help defending, even if with no mustering resisting will be hard, with one mustering in the first four turns you should at least survive for some time.

Anyway, you are right, having this option is probably a long shot. Admins, should you see this, please keep that somewhere in mind. ^^

Would be happy to know results if you use that at home, Franc (and Frode too).


Necrarch
Knight of Ni

Posts: 2,037
Games: 135
Rank Points: 1,003
Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-01 15:04
Therefore, should we ask the admins how hard it can be to implement that Asha / Balon combat strength swap as a new option?


Duckfield
King's Councillor

Posts: 134
Games: 380
Rank Points: 2,588
Member since: 2016-Nov-24

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-04 14:49
So, I've almost always played this game as the only experienced player vs a game of 5 new players. It's definitely tough with the game out of the box, because the game allows for an amazing play experience for a group of players playing their 250th game each, which is nearly impossible to do with a game that is balanced for a group of newbies. So, it's a challenge.

However, here is how I've structured games with new players to really help us. We actually play an advanced turn in the game where I stipulate that every player must place every order type and must have at least one battle. I talk through each order and battle and house card used briefly. The whole setup and turn usually takes about 20 minutes to get through, but all players learn the mechanics of the game a lot better and I can provide feedback on what they do when it doesn't count. I like to think that this 20 minutes at the beginning of the game saves us at least an hour in the long run because players are more confident with order placement and combat. Then we start the game from the beginning. One thing I am sure to highlight is that battling is risky and how players should always be looking over their shoulder for a backstab.

I don't make any modifications to anything, but I do find that introducing the game in this way has a balancing effect. I do, like you, often put myself up as a sacrificial lamb and play Lannister. I can understand wanting some variety, but I think making modifications is just too much.

If you really wanted to do something, you should play with Tides of Battle cards. They make any early aggression EXTREMELY risky.
Necrarch
Knight of Ni

Posts: 2,037
Games: 135
Rank Points: 1,003
Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-04 16:43
I have to say that adding luck in a game such as this one with a low level of it is somewhat impossible to understand to me.

OK, there is luck as for the Westeros Cards, but one of the main interests (for me) as for GoT is not to depend on luck, so really not fond of ToB cards. That's only a personal point of view.


Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 753
Games: 1,331
Rank Points: 10,054
Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-04 17:32
I am also not big on ToB, but that is because I think the Westeros cards already introduce so much luck on their own.  The game is completely different if a clash comes in the first round or the 4th, or if there are 2 total musters or 5.
Necrarch
Knight of Ni

Posts: 2,037
Games: 135
Rank Points: 1,003
Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-04 18:15
Completely agreed ! I am playing a game with the CoK variant where you see the next card of each Westeros pile: that is very fun and allow more calculation, that is nice.


franc
Master Blacksmith

Posts: 38
Games: 39
Rank Points: 256
Member since: 2018-Feb-06

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-04 22:48
Therefore, should we ask the admins how hard it can be to implement that Asha / Balon combat strength swap as a new option?
Yes, it would be nice if you open a new topic in Development section and ask about this new mode where Asha's and Balon's strengts are swaped
Xenon Radon
3.141592653589793238462643383279

Posts: 149
Games: 462
Rank Points: 2,848
Member since: 2017-Jun-29

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-05 18:24
Martell is never weak. Though his winrate may not be so high, he often gets a 2nd or a 3rd place. Also, it is much more often for a Martell to take Shipbreaker Bay or West Summer Sea than to lose East Summer Sea. So strengthen Martell may be destructive.
Greyjoy should have Balon. Greyjoy's location is worse than others, so he should have better house cards. Actually Greyjoy is now stronger than it should be. I think we can replace Victarion and Theon by DwD Victarion and DwD Asha (Asha may also be replaced) instead of replacing Balon.
The changes for Lannister and Tyrell are good ideas. But since Tyrell is strengthed, maybe Martell also need some improvements such as replacing Hotah?
Also, I can't understand why Stark has such a high winrate. In the games I played, Stark is usually too weak and often destroyed by Greyjoy or Baratheon. If Greyjoy's Victarion is replaced, maybe it will be balanced a bit. Stark's house cards needn't be changed in this case.


Necrarch
Knight of Ni

Posts: 2,037
Games: 135
Rank Points: 1,003
Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-06 16:08
New development topic here:
https://www.thronemaster.net/?goto=community&sub=forum&fid=5&tid=60677#top

With only the Asha / Balon combat strength swap asked for.
Hope that will be doable, then testable, and perhaps give some good results.


franc
Master Blacksmith

Posts: 38
Games: 39
Rank Points: 256
Member since: 2018-Feb-06

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-07 09:52
One additional thing about Paxter Redwyne though : he is, like Saladhor, a 1-card.
That means with 1 ship he behaves like a 2-card, with 2-ships a 3, etc.

You need more than 4 ships in hand to make him a super stong card. On the other hand, with a Def+1 order + him, you have a def of 3 against a Martell player and can still keep your Mace. Tyrell to get his fleet wiped away needs to either face the Red Vyper (that may happen but it can only be used once so it is risky) or to be beaten twice at least (in WSS and Redwyne Straights).

I therefore do believe it can be a valid card to help defending, even if with no mustering resisting will be hard, with one mustering in the first four turns you should at least survive for some time.

Anyway, you are right, having this option is probably a long shot. Admins, should you see this, please keep that somewhere in mind. ^^

Would be happy to know results if you use that at home, Franc (and Frode too).


Paxter Redwine is in my opinion mostly late game buff and Tyrell is alread one of the strongest late game houses. For that reason I am against that change. Would much rather introduce my proposal that makes your home territorry immune against early strike. If muster doesn't come up untill turn 4 and Martell attacks you early, you are dead anyway (with or without Paxter Redwine).
franc
Master Blacksmith

Posts: 38
Games: 39
Rank Points: 256
Member since: 2018-Feb-06

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-07 09:59
Martell is never weak. Though his winrate may not be so high, he often gets a 2nd or a 3rd place. Also, it is much more often for a Martell to take Shipbreaker Bay or West Summer Sea than to lose East Summer Sea. So strengthen Martell may be destructive.
Greyjoy should have Balon. Greyjoy's location is worse than others, so he should have better house cards. Actually Greyjoy is now stronger than it should be. I think we can replace Victarion and Theon by DwD Victarion and DwD Asha (Asha may also be replaced) instead of replacing Balon.
The changes for Lannister and Tyrell are good ideas. But since Tyrell is strengthed, maybe Martell also need some improvements such as replacing Hotah?
Also, I can't understand why Stark has such a high winrate. In the games I played, Stark is usually too weak and often destroyed by Greyjoy or Baratheon. If Greyjoy's Victarion is replaced, maybe it will be balanced a bit. Stark's house cards needn't be changed in this case.

True, Martell is almost always near the top, however, in the game of thrones you either win or die. Second place doesn't mean anything. Martell has trouble winning the game as he is far from other castles once you take territories within your sphere of influence. This is the reason why I proposed a small buff.

Nevertheless, as you mentioned meta-game is important factor. If it is usuall in your group to attack Stark early, then his winnrate will be really low. In my experience this is not something that people in my playgroup do. So all these changes are dependent on what is your playgroup meta-game, the experience of the players (more experience players can balance the game to larger extent as they attack the house with an advantage) etc.
Duckfield
King's Councillor

Posts: 134
Games: 380
Rank Points: 2,588
Member since: 2016-Nov-24

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-08 19:37
I have to say that adding luck in a game such as this one with a low level of it is somewhat impossible to understand to me.

OK, there is luck as for the Westeros Cards, but one of the main interests (for me) as for GoT is not to depend on luck, so really not fond of ToB cards. That's only a personal point of view.

I understand not wanting to play with the ToB, especially as an experienced player. They are wholly unnecessary in a game of experienced players. But when playing with a group of noobs who always seem to attack in the same predictable way, playing the game as a Risk variant, then the ToB might be just what you need to help lessen the aggression.

I would recommend using game balancing that comes in the box before radically changing what is on printed cards or in the rulebook. Not a great experience for a first time player to be told that you need to house rule fix some things in order to have a good play experience.
deranger
Squire

Posts: 121
Games: 55
Rank Points: 394
Member since: 2016-Mar-30

Topic: Best house card changes to adress imbalances
Posted: 2019-Mar-14 04:25
Just as a quick defence of Tides- even with experienced players, the fact that it makes battles that otherwise would be losing propositions possibilities if they're backed up properly, and opens up some variety in how games turns out make it quite interesting imo. Keeps your strategy evolving, instead of fully deterministic.
12

Please log in to use the reply function.
toast