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Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-Apr-25 14:11
How do you deal with an agressive Greyjoy when being Lannister, now that you have a ship in the port as well? I still find it difficult to defend against an aggresive Greyjoy, so I'm curious how you guys do it
Niemi
Master Blacksmith

Posts: 5
Games: 78
Rank Points: 257
Member since: 2020-Mar-10

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-Apr-27 23:54
make alliance with Stark, defend Golden Sound, craft ships in Lannisport
ssyanubis
Master Stonemason

Posts: 2
Games: 24
Rank Points: 69
Member since: 2020-May-03

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-May-13 06:59
make alliance with Stark, defend Golden Sound, craft ships in Lannisport when Stark help the greyjoy, how should i do?
ssyanubis
Master Stonemason

Posts: 2
Games: 24
Rank Points: 69
Member since: 2020-May-03

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-May-13 07:05
i use hound and jaime to vs balon and euron
and take the sword
twst
Warden Of The North

Posts: 16
Games: 389
Rank Points: 1,910
Member since: 2018-Jan-15

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-May-13 14:30
1. Muster a Siege in Lannisport first turn (if he takes RR)
2. M+1 in LP, S+1 in Stoney Sept, R+1 in GS (ih you have it and no clash comes up)
3. Ask Stark to raid Seagard
4. Retake RR with Gregor if he fucked up planting the Knight there or Cersei if not.
5. Offer negotiations after that move, maybe even before resolving Cersei. More often than not mediocre Greyjoys can be talked into a western alliance if you show that you're putting up a fight.
6. Try to get someone to bid on the VSB in the first clash. Don't let him have a star and the sword by any means. If neccessary, concede stars to outbid him on the VSB.
7. Make use of Tyrion to either screw up his card cycling so Balon is his last or win a fight by him not being able to use a house card (so usually last/2nd to last).

In general, play the matchup more often and make sure to use Gregor to hurt his inability to muster units hard. When you get through the first clash while he had to use Aeron and you win a (possibly minor) victory with Tyrwin, you might have 4 Token advantage, so don't shy away from using Tyrwin if he used Aeron. Weather the early storm, don't tilt or panic and you might just be fine. As Ser Hodor put it in another thread: Lannister house cards are not easy to use, but can be devastating if set up correctly. I'll leave his thread about Lannister below, I improved quite a bit after reading these about all houses.

https://www.thronemaster.net/?goto=community&sub=forum&fid=3&tid=55152#top
Jambo
Master Stonemason

Posts: 48
Games: 24
Rank Points: 62
Member since: 2014-Dec-26

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-Jul-29 15:19
I noticed from the Stats logged here that the introduction of the extra ship has had abolutely zero impact to Lannister's win chance in the base 6 player game.

I knew the desginer's errata wouldn't be enough, and it wouild seem I've been vindicated by the stats.

Fundamentally, it comes down to Greyjoy's OP cards and as long as they have access to autowins in Balon and Victarion, it's unlikely to change.
iSghic
One Of The Kingsguard

Posts: 31
Games: 166
Rank Points: 1,008
Member since: 2017-Apr-04

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-Sep-15 14:12
I noticed from the Stats logged here that the introduction of the extra ship has had abolutely zero impact to Lannister's win chance in the base 6 player game.

I knew the desginer's errata wouldn't be enough, and it wouild seem I've been vindicated by the stats.

Fundamentally, it comes down to Greyjoy's OP cards and as long as they have access to autowins in Balon and Victarion, it's unlikely to change.

It seems like you said, what about change Balon effect adding "You cannot use the sword while using Balon"?
Necrarch
Counsellor

Posts: 794
Games: 67
Rank Points: 472
Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-Sep-15 14:18
The sword is not always in GJ's hands.

One "classical" change many players use in home-made versions is swap the combat strengths of Asha and Balon. Balon is still a great card but not one that is able to win at +2 (+3 with sword), and Asha comes more useful.

Or you play like many good players around here, knowing that GJ is a little too favoured so everyone will give him a difficult time by default.


iSghic
One Of The Kingsguard

Posts: 31
Games: 166
Rank Points: 1,008
Member since: 2017-Apr-04

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-Sep-15 14:24
The sword is not always in GJ's hands.

I know it.
But I think the problem is in the early game, when GJ with sword has multiple ways to crush the Lannister.


Or you play like many good players around here, knowing that GJ is a little too favoured so everyone will give him a difficult time by default.

The keyword is "Good Players", and even them cannot always stop a good GJ.

I came back on thronmaster after 157 Days without playing (and same time before that from the previous one), first of all I looked the stats and saw the Errata basically changed nothing. I'm really disappointed.
Necrarch
Counsellor

Posts: 794
Games: 67
Rank Points: 472
Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-Sep-15 14:35
As a not-too-bad Lannister, I can tell you that it changes a few things in the way people behave (the meta) for the deals between GJ / Lanni where the early game can change.

However, it does not reverse completely the balance, far from so indeed. Lanni is still extremely hard to play if you have an aggressive GJ - but the North option to go after Stark is quite popular these days, would say a little more than before. And from my point of view, it makes a lot of sense, as a left-alone Stark is highly likely to win the game.

GJ, though, is still the best in stats. To notice though that if the Lanni ship did not improve the win rate of the Lion, it did diminish the GJ one by 1%. Not something to neglect when speaking of rates that should go around 16.6%

Another possible change to do when playing at home is swapping the positions of Tyrell and GJ on the Fiefdoms at start. Gives the sword to Tyrell, a supposedly weak house, and removes it from GJ, a strong one. Would be curious to see the effects.


OwnerOfTheIronThrone
Knight

Posts: 21
Games: 109
Rank Points: 731
Member since: 2018-Nov-13

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-Oct-26 12:59
Thread is just a bit outdated,  but question itself is never going to wear off. To begein with, it's a matter of luck and mindgame. Myself after these changes I find fighting GJ easier way to win then to ally him for Lannister, but that is a matter of perferences and the table. With weaker table you might win without taking GJ sea just by having most castles turn 10 or because of some fuckup from other players not realizing you win.

If you do decide/are forced to fight GJ you should keep couple things in mind. Your opponent doesn't kill units if he rly needs to win some huge battle or kills only 1 of them. Thus GJ is very vonureable to baiting cards, especially since he can't rly afford to lose some battles. Here comes the thing about guide. You can't bluff every time nor play strong card everytime. If you are lucky or simply are good at mindgames you can cripple his hand early.

Secondly always track how many cards he has left and prepare juicy tyrion. He is MVP of this war. You want to use him as soon as possible so that he has full impact (the more units the less impact cards have). To have opportinity early you have to fight all the time. Sometimes you will have to help him throw a weak card off in order to do it.

Knowing two previous points you should never give up RR without fight. And I mean NEVER. It is one of the battles you want to bait card from GJ or take away mustering points from him. Even if you lose you are oke and will simply attack there next turn and either kill what is left with gregor or will remove his order token with cersei.

How to abuse additional ship in port? Well this is one I love and many ppl underestemait. If GJ puts march on sea you can simply match it by your march +1 on golden sounds. First move ship from port and you have total combat str of 3 vs 1. WOW. Only Balon guarantees win for GJ. And he can't afford to lose this battle. It is 100% bluff situation. Except for the fact that I you are not risking anything and he is risking his game.

In the end Stark's support should be easy to get because your war is very advantageous for him that you are ripping each other apart. I would gladly give up flint's finger and greywater to stark so that he helps me fight GJ if he offers him sth for obstaining.

Couple moves you should bare in mind that can turn the tide of war in your favour:
-Taking sunset sea with one ship if you can't bait on sea anyway.
-Cersei in flint's finger with starks support
-Cersei/Gregor in RR
-Outbiding GJ on sword (this one can rly demolish him and is a game winner if you can waste enough tokens so that he doesn't get a single star anyway)
-Mustering on his sea (it's obvious if it happens, but thing is to deny him some plays so that he has to prevent it. For example if you capture RR and he can't retake it turn 1 he won't be able to take your sea even if he has enough units)

Even with all this introduced you can always lose to bad luck and win not using them when lucky. This only would help you be more consisten when opportunity presents itself.
Visara
Knight

Posts: 184
Games: 212
Rank Points: 674
Member since: 2016-Jul-10

Topic: Lannister vs Greyjoy after errata
Posted: 2020-Nov-02 21:05
The second Lannister ship has more to do with the extra march order that comes with Mother of Dragons.
It is an order 'March -1' that can only be placed at sea or port.

The result is that Greyjoy would have a good chances of taking Lannisport first round now.
The extra Lannister ship gives Lannister better defense options at sea. Greyjoy an still take the sea if he wants, but he may have to spend Balon to get it. And without Balon, he can't take Lannisport first round.



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