Most users ever online was 263 on 2020-Apr-18 20:02
Users in total:
Newest user:
17 users online:
22,041
Ashlander
sydneygas 16 minutes ago

one more needed

sydneygas 18 minutes ago

3p live is up

D_jaja 18 minutes ago

Silver Den game started

D_jaja 49 minutes ago

2/3

D_jaja 56 minutes ago

3p live up

IronStandsEternal 14 hours ago

3/6p... you are welcome to join

IronStandsEternal 14 hours ago

3/6p

IronStandsEternal 15 hours ago

2/6p

IronStandsEternal 15 hours ago

6p live game is up in case someone wants to play

D_jaja 15 hours ago

2/3

D_jaja 15 hours ago

3p live up

D_jaja 17 hours ago

2/3

D_jaja 18 hours ago

Ok no interest in 6P live, then maybe 3P?

D_jaja 18 hours ago

How much players?

JaqenHghar0 18 hours ago

pbem for beginners?

D_jaja 19 hours ago

Lets try it... 6P live up

smssf 22 hours ago

hostless 3p live

Silver Den 22 hours ago

Legend, thank you very much

Ihor 22 hours ago

Done

smssf 22 hours ago

hostless 3o

Spider-Pig, Spider-Pig, ...



Community Forum
Search |  


Author
Message
Laughing Storm
Battle Commander

Posts: 11
Games: 179
Rank Points: 1,403
Member since: 2019-Feb-18

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-22 03:27
We just had a game i barely won as Martell.
Turn 10. Bara was at 6 castles, i'm at 5, and it was lannisters last move. With that move he couldve attacked me or bara. But he can only win from bara, making bara tie on castles with me, and me winning on supplies.
(this move gives lannister an extra castle)

Does Lannister HAVE to make this move? If he doesn't bara wins with 6 castles. If he does, I do with 5 castles and more supply.

To me it seems Lannister does have to take the castle, but what are your opinions?


If it's unclear, this is the game id: 186439
Harakon
Grandmaester of Reports

Posts: 3,634
Games: 903
Rank Points: 3,430
Member since: 2014-Aug-24

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-22 07:59
Pls see rule 5.2:
When there is certainly a winner in this round you have the following Options:
stay inactive
reconquer Castles you lost previously
Support someone to gain a higher ranking.


Laughing Storm
Battle Commander

Posts: 11
Games: 179
Rank Points: 1,403
Member since: 2019-Feb-18

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-22 14:18
Thanks Harakon.

So in this scenario Lannister had 2 options: remain inactive, or reconquer a castle he owned previously.

That means he was allowed to choose who wins right? So he was not forced to go for personal gain and get another castle.
JR90
Queen in the North

Posts: 1,112
Games: 175
Rank Points: 532
Member since: 2017-Aug-29

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-22 17:09
Put it this way, if the game is definitely gonna end that round (because is the final round) he can do whatever is best for him in terms of ranking - as a consequence he 'chooses' who wins -, or stay inactive because it is contemplated in the rules


Laughing Storm
Battle Commander

Posts: 11
Games: 179
Rank Points: 1,403
Member since: 2019-Feb-18

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-28 15:59
Then this is another interesting one. Game id: 187138.

According to rule 5.2, bara's last move was NOT allowed.

Staying inactive would have made him end third. Attacking stark or lanni would make him 2nd. He was allowed to attack only lannister, because lanni took bara's castle from him.
I'm pretty sure he flipped a coin and ended up attacking Stark, making Lannister win.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
JR90
Queen in the North

Posts: 1,112
Games: 175
Rank Points: 532
Member since: 2017-Aug-29

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-28 16:41
As long as people improve their own position, they are allowed. They are doing what is best for themselves and only as a consequence they dictate the winner, when it is the other way around then its forbidden (with the exceptions we mention).

We don't want the kingmaking rule to turn into a witch hunt, which is currently what seems to happen with some reports.
It was mainly designed to prevent situations where it was completely unnatural someone win and due to very bad - and inexplicable for the fairness of the game - moves someone is made king.
Like finishing a game in round 5 because a stark with baratheon in his narrow sea does not occupy white harbor/moat caillin and with one move baratheon conquers those 2 + the eyrie and gets 7 castles.


Harakon
Grandmaester of Reports

Posts: 3,634
Games: 903
Rank Points: 3,430
Member since: 2014-Aug-24

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-28 17:13
TO be more specific: You mean 5.2a)
What are the criteria?
Game ends this round no matter what-Check
Now the "deciding" player has multiple options and if one applies it is not kingmaking:
Staying inactive-Not check
He cannot help a player win BUT is allowed the following:
Reconquer castles he lost previously-Not Check
Attack/Support anybody to achieve a benefit-Check
By attacking you he ended up 2nd in the game instead of third. This would not have been possible attacking Lannister.
In this case Baratheon actually was free to do anything:
He could stay inactive
Decide the game by reconquering a castle from Lannsiter he lost previously
Achieving a benefit by attacking you


Laughing: While both scenarios are indeed edgy but not kingmaking according to the rule, pls stop dscussing these in public without checking with one of us first. You cant see your games from an objective point of view.
El Popelos has some kingmaking cases made public for the users to see how the rule works.


Laughing Storm
Battle Commander

Posts: 11
Games: 179
Rank Points: 1,403
Member since: 2019-Feb-18

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-28 17:18
Fair enough, thanks for your response. So more of a guideline instead of a hard rule then. I suspect such a subjective rule to be very hard to define

Anyway, this is all very good to know for when i'm ever in such a position
Harakon
Grandmaester of Reports

Posts: 3,634
Games: 903
Rank Points: 3,430
Member since: 2014-Aug-24

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-28 17:25
Fair enough, thanks for your response. So more of a guideline instead of a hard rule then. I suspect such a subjective rule to be very hard to define

Anyway, this is all very good to know for when i'm ever in such a position

The problem with kingmaking scenarios is that there are too many possibilities to give an exact example.

My recommendation: If a game finishes and you think the game ended because of a kingmaking move, take a 5 minute break and take a look at the game when your head is calm and have the exceptions on a seperate screen or the other half of the screen


Laughing Storm
Battle Commander

Posts: 11
Games: 179
Rank Points: 1,403
Member since: 2019-Feb-18

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Feb-28 19:24
I didn't mean to accuse anyone Harakon. If i thought these were kingmaking i would have reported it. Just asking for clarification.

If this is not the right place to discuss these scenarios feel free to delete this thread. I was curious about the rules and this seemed like the right sub-forum
ElPopelos
Keeper of the Forbidden Wilds

Posts: 3,874
Games: 179
Rank Points: 1,271
Member since: 2013-Feb-01

Topic: Interesting scenario about kingmaking.
Posted: 2019-Mar-01 17:49
No, this is absolutely the right place and the way you did it was good too!

Just make sure that you dont involve any playerrelated informations when you share such a case. For more complex situations, you could make a screenshot (and erase playernames).

Now, the others already explained this well, but since you came up with different options, i want all of them covered (only for the last round though!)


1) The Player can stay inactive at any time.
2) The Player can reconquer castles he previously lost
3) The Player can declare revenge (if there is a VERY good reason for that) and attack/support/raid according to this.
4) The Player can attack/support/raid if it grants him a benefit in form of a better placement


Note that the revenge in 3) isnt simply to declare but needs very strong reasons such as backstabbing or constant pressure throughout the game.



Please log in to use the reply function.
toast