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Nicky 6 minutes ago

3/6 for 6p live

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3/6 live up

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3p live up

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Live game anyone?

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3p up for u

potato 5 hours ago

come on 3p ,man

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3p

MrMX 9 hours ago

sean, would you be up for a 3p?

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1 more for 6. Come save us

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Some one save us. 5 of 6

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come on gues sweet last spot

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5/6

konrad98ft 12 hours ago

3/6*

konrad98ft 12 hours ago

3.6

konrad98ft 12 hours ago

let's switch to 6p. we just finished one, so it will get full quickly

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3p live 2/3

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Redo up

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Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
Games: 1,331
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Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Aug-31 17:12
HOUSE CARDS

Excellent. Tyrell’s 1 and 2 cards are nothing spectacular, but they are pretty much exactly what you want from your cards without unique abilities.  Mace is a decent 4 card, though more often than not I’d prefer Euron’s single sword to the more limited autokill option. But the real threat, and real fun, of the deck are in the Queen Of Thorns and Knight Of Flowers.

Queen Of Thorns possibilities are endless, and is the single best card for pulling off a backstab move. It’s callous to speak this way I know, but the fact is that while your enemies are going to be aware of when you have her and adjusting around her possible strikes, your allies are not so much.  Just when Martell or Lannister thinks they have the world by the ass, she can dip in and remove a crucial support or potential counterattack before Loras drops the hammer.

Loras’s prowess is well known.  An extra march order is an enormous advantage that no other house can duplicate (like Martell’s ability to move up the tracks outside of a Clash, Stark being able to return cards without going through the weak ones, or on the much weaker end, Lannister’s ability to enrich itself through battle). Use him as frequently as you can, and don’t be afraid to throw him on a -1 march, since most opponents will be skeptical that you would handicap him in this way and he might just win a surprise battle. You don’t have to enact an extreme scenario of wiping out an enemy’s entire naval force or roll directly through 2 castles in order to get use out of the extra march. Chasing down and killing a routed army (even a small one), spreading single units into unguarded territories like Salt Shore, Boneway, or Greywater Watch, or even just instigating a second losing battle to cycle your hand; these are not the moves that you spend hours plotting to hopefully pull off, but they can be major hassles to your opponents nonetheless.

But fun cards aside, the bigger part of Tyrell’s deck is going to come down to mastering the fundamentals of baiting.  That’s right.  You have to be a master baiter. I said it and I am not sorry.  

The 1’s have fortifications to make them prime candidates for baiting opponent’s high cards, and 2’s have swords to take a bite out of the enemy when that’s all you need to win (Garlan is fairly underrated, imo, given that all four neighboring houses together only have 1 card between them that can block his second sword). If the deck has a single particular flaw, it’s that neither Mace nor Loras have any sword icons, which make them easy targets for being drawn out on defense. I won’t claim to be an expert about all of this, but I’m learning that you always want to use all your marches with Tyrell, rather than being careful with defenses or speculative raids.  These help to take advantage when a Loras opportunity arises suddenly, but also to start cycling through your cards quickly when you are baited/Patchfaced into dumping your big cards early.

KEY CARDS:

Loras and Queen Of Thorns. These cards make Tyrell a menace in the final round, when every march counts. Even when they are functionally eliminated from contention for first, they can play a hell of a spoiler almost every time.  I am considering starting another thread solely to talk about Turn 10 considerations and strategies, but at the top of that list is that QOT and Loras are closers. Do whatever you have to in order to ensure they are in your hand in the last round. If you are in a tight race with a neighbor, and you can’t parlay the ability to remove one of their marches and add an extra one of your own into a win, you need be ashamed.
Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
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Rank Points: 10,054
Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Aug-31 17:22
BOARD POSITION

Not very good.  Reliable CP position in the Arbor, and protected in that none of its home castles are vulnerable to direct attack/support from enemy ships the way other’s (Riverrun, Flint’s Finger, CCP, Storm’s End, Starfall) are. Furthermore, it is the only house with a second stronghold that is not within reach of any enemy territory. This gives them reliable mustering, and means it’s harder to taken them completely by surprise and crush them in a single blow.

The Reach is, despite this, a small kingdom, encompassing a meager 5 lands areas.  It’s 2 crowns are better than they look, since the Arbor is entirely protected by your seas and you can usually get at least a couple rounds of CP out of Dornish Marches before anyone gets in position to raid it. The oddest thing about it, which I find completely indefensible from both a lore and gameplay perspective, is that it is very light on barrels. It’s nice that your capital has 2, which allows you to withstand a prolonged siege better than Bara or Martell, but still the breadbasket of Westeros should be good for more than a measly 3 supply.

The other thing to note is that while Tyrell looks like it has a corner position, it is actually a middle house that plays much more like Lannister or Baratheon than the more isolated Starks and Martells.  Diplomacy is key, and not just to avoid getting wiped out right off the bat, as we will discuss shortly.


KEY TERRITORIES:

The Arbor.  There’s not much to say about it, but the constant income is vital to keeping Tyrell relevant despite its middling board position and dire opening tracks.

Dornish Marches.  Losing this is a much bigger deal than it looks like.  It provides your enemy direct access to all of your lands, and a raid there makes it much harder to support the Reach, or a foothold in Searoad Marches.
Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
Games: 1,331
Rank Points: 10,054
Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Aug-31 17:27
STARTING TRACKS

Abysmal.  Just so, so awful.  You start behind everyone on the Iron Throne (another one that makes no sense for lore or gameplay), and with no star orders.  Being 2nd on the fiefdom track is cold comfort when all your neighbors have star orders to make up the difference and, especially, to muster units right off the bat. If you’ve played a few Tyrell games, you know that they are absolutely helpless if they do not catch a Muster or Clash in the opening round. Martell can wipe out their entire naval force in a single march on the 2nd turn, which puts them on their heels until the back half of the game at least.

Should that happen, your best option is generally to start marching your land units into Dorne, since Martell will not have been able to make many of their own in their focus on shipbuilding. If you catch some good cards on the back end, you can throw them for a loop or two. If you don’t, it still may be possible to stay out of sea range while you wait for help.
Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
Games: 1,331
Rank Points: 10,054
Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Aug-31 17:44
SPECIAL/UNIQUE STRENGTHS

Can add and remove orders from the board. This is an enormous thing. There are minor degrees to which other houses can do this – Tywin and Renly’s abilities are equivalent to resolving an extra CP order in some sense, and Cersei can also remove orders in the right circumstance.  But no one can match the hit-you-any-time unpredictability of Queen Of Thorn’s robbing ability.  Supports and CP orders can be taken out by any old raid order, but stealing a march from an enemy takes the lead straight out of their pencil.  That Loras can also add additional marches to the board is also, with apologies to Roose and Doran, the single most potent ability of any card.

These abilities allow Tyrell, if they can avoid getting flattened by an early blitz and manage the mid-game grind for another barrel or two, to put together massive late-game rushes. If we are to believe my stats, then their various and severe handicaps make them the weakest house overall, but they are also my favorite to play. Once you get a taste for them, all the other houses just seem so limited in their potential. They have the flexible board position and diplomatic options of Baratheon, with the dynamic deck of Lannister, and the CP advantages and counterattack capability of Stark.  This means that when you haven’t already been pushed to the brink of extinction, you can be a real wild card in the endgame.  And that your backstabs can be absolutely crushing, decisive blows that stun the entire realm.

SPECIAL/UNIQUE WEAKNESSES

Helpless until the Westeros Cards deem otherwise.

Limited supply options.

These are enormous handicaps that make Tyrell arguably the weakest house, but we've already talked about them so I won't belabor it further.
Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
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Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Aug-31 17:51
EARLY STRATEGIC CONCERNS

Can you make peace with Martell? I always prefer friendly relations with Dorne, if only because Doran can bring down an entire plan for worldwide domination with a wag of his finger. But also there is the threat that silence in the Westeros Phase will lead to that unfortunate situation which we will discuss no further here.

Lacking that, it’s worth talking peace with Lannister. It is a bit grotesque for them to have 2 allies, assuming they aren’t fighting Greyjoy, but he’s also the only one who can help even the odds if the Martells and Baratheons have made common cause. Its also never too early to start pouring poison in his ear about betraying Greyjoy and splitting up his seas.

As for orders, CP in Dornish Marches is a must. So is a march in Redwyne, as while you don’t necessarily want to expose your only ship to the Viper’s unstoppable swords, its even worse to allow Martell to take Starfall and muster into WSS before you. You will also want to march in Highgarden, but where is an open question. Oldtown is the obvious choice, since you need to make ships as quickly and plentifully as you can manage. For the other, I normally pick the Arbor, as an early token lead can be self-sustaining*.

Also, going right for the Reach can be interpreted as aggressive by Baratheon, who would probably prefer another round of safe CP in Kingswood.  That said, if Martell is hostile and comes out swinging, you don’t want any troops stranded on an island with no transport, so the Reach or even 3 towers puts you in a better spot to march directly into Prince's Path.

*houses that go into clashes on the low end often have to go all-in just to remain relevant, meaning that later tracks can be had cheaper, leaving you tokens left over and perpetuating the cycle of poverty
permanentquandary
Knight

Posts: 31
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Member since: 2018-Mar-29

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Sep-02 15:31
I approve of this message
Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
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Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Oct-06 22:44
Another thought.  I have seen more Martells lately starting with a CP in Salt Shore.  In this instance, I think it may actually be better to leave your ship in Redwyne.  Without the threat of mustering from Starfall, you can keep it out of reach of the Viper if the Westeros cards are quiet and Martell goes on the offensive.
earthshaker
Warden Of The North

Posts: 175
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Member since: 2015-Jan-15

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Oct-07 05:35
Well said Ser Hodor. A few things to add is that as Hodor mention, Tyrell has the best offensive potential out of all the houses involved, but utilizing that, involves a lot of careful strategic planning of how the manuevers will be executed, diplomacy and some luck as with any house.

Another thing to note is that, taking the reach isn't consider an aggression towards bara, but it's a good opening move, because having a footmen on oldtown instead of arbor ensures that you footmen isn't stranded if there's no muster, and martell initiates an aggression towards tyrell.
OlBeadyeyes
Squire

Posts: 23
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Member since: 2018-Jul-09

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Oct-08 11:14
Another thought.  I have seen more Martells lately starting with a CP in Salt Shore.  In this instance, I think it may actually be better to leave your ship in Redwyne.  Without the threat of mustering from Starfall, you can keep it out of reach of the Viper if the Westeros cards are quiet and Martell goes on the offensive.
I don't know, I think it's still a good idea to move the ship out from Redwyne. While it's sat there it serves no purpose and you're going to have to move it out sooner or later, so why not do it in the first round when you can do so without wasting a move order?
Nomaris
Maester without a chain

Posts: 2,470
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Member since: 2017-May-19

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Oct-08 12:00
Another thought.  I have seen more Martells lately starting with a CP in Salt Shore.  In this instance, I think it may actually be better to leave your ship in Redwyne.  Without the threat of mustering from Starfall, you can keep it out of reach of the Viper if the Westeros cards are quiet and Martell goes on the offensive.
If Martell wastes his strongest house card (in terms of battle strength) on a single ship, I'd say let him. If no muster comes up he can kill it in Redwyne straits all the same (just one round later), and if muster comes up that single ship won't matter, since you can muster 3 new ones in redwyne straits and if needed a fourth in the port of Oldtown.


Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
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Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2018-Oct-08 20:58


If Martell wastes his strongest house card (in terms of battle strength) on a single ship, I'd say let him. If no muster comes up he can kill it in Redwyne straits all the same (just one round later), and if muster comes up that single ship won't matter, since you can muster 3 new ones in redwyne straits and if needed a fourth in the port of Oldtown.


Killing it one round later is the whole point.  It gives you an extra round to catch a muster, or a clash, that will put him back on his heels.  You can make an extra footman while getting those 3 ships.  Having an extra order in Redwyne can be crucial.  It forces another battle (which can be especially important during Rains Of Autumn), perhaps a higher card, or can negate a support/raid order.
Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
Games: 1,331
Rank Points: 10,054
Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2019-Aug-07 23:07
Well, in the past year I've gotten a little better with Tyrell, but they remain my weakest house, and only one that I can't get above the 1/6 wins mark.  For all that, it and Lanni are still my favorites to play because of their wild card abilities.

The hard part is, as my stats have improved slightly, it has not illuminated any reliable path to victory. I've won by taking Winterfell and White Harbor, and sometimes by Seagard and Pyke, and sometimes by Harrenhall and CCP, and of course the occasional conquest of Dorne, the game trajectories are just all over the place.  I've decided I like going north better than any other direction, since Greyjoy/Stark lack of direct counters for text-based abilities leave them more helpless to QOT and Loras's machinations than Martell (with Arianne), Baratheon (with Patchface) or Lannister (with Tyrion). I'm also learning that when sailing  north, it is good to use Loras and Mace/Garlan to cripple Lanni or GJ immediately, since they are often quick to put aside their quarrels and unite to kick your ass back down south if you don't knock one out right away.

Beyond that, I'm still struggling to put together a unified theory of house Tyrell.  If anyone else has tactics they find reliable, I'd be keen to hear them.
Necrarch
Knight of Ni

Posts: 2,053
Games: 135
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Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2019-Aug-08 14:47
I am currently testing a new opening with Tyrell that counters the Martell ship rush:
CP in Dornish, M to WSS, M sends knight in Oldtown and FM to Searoad with the Lanni agreement - who is usually fine if you tell him you ‘lljust leave a PT there

That footman gets M0 next. Usually a rushing Martell puts his two new ships in  SoDorne, M-1 them to ESS then M+1 toWSS, and takes Starfall to secure the barrel.
If yes, when you see the M+1 in ESS, send your FM to Starfall and QoT the M+1. He may die but will save one turn for a muster / CoK.
If no, just send him to the Arbor for CP.
Any case leave PT for a fourth barrel - usually Lanni either struggles with GJ or aims at BW.

Gives a bit less PT, but saves from early death. Love to play Tyrell as well!


Jester
Blacksmith

Posts: 66
Games: 23
Rank Points: 160
Member since: 2018-Mar-03

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2020-Jan-07 20:18

The hard part is, as my stats have improved slightly, it has not illuminated any reliable path to victory. I've won by taking Winterfell and White Harbor, and sometimes by Seagard and Pyke, and sometimes by Harrenhall and CCP, and of course the occasional conquest of Dorne, the game trajectories are just all over the place.  I've decided I like going north better than any other direction, since Greyjoy/Stark lack of direct counters for text-based abilities leave them more helpless to QOT and Loras's machinations than Martell (with Arianne), Baratheon (with Patchface) or Lannister (with Tyrion).

I believe that, barring early Martell rush, Tyrell is well-suited to build up in turns 2-5 and only then go for the weakest prey (assuming GJ/Stark isn't running away with the game). As you mentioned before, Tyrell is capable of invading all other Houses, and the same is true when it comes to board control: you have tools to at least interfere with any House running away with early win. In theory, at least!

I am currently testing a new opening with Tyrell that counters the Martell ship rush:
CP in Dornish, M to WSS, M sends knight in Oldtown and FM to Searoad with the Lanni agreement - who is usually fine if you tell him you ‘lljust leave a PT there

That footman gets M0 next. Usually a rushing Martell puts his two new ships in  SoDorne, M-1 them to ESS then M+1 toWSS, and takes Starfall to secure the barrel.
If yes, when you see the M+1 in ESS, send your FM to Starfall and QoT the M+1. He may die but will save one turn for a muster / CoK.
If no, just send him to the Arbor for CP.
Any case leave PT for a fourth barrel - usually Lanni either struggles with GJ or aims at BW.

What is your experience with this opening so far? Does it fare better than K-> Oldtown, F-> Arbor?
Necrarch
Knight of Ni

Posts: 2,053
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Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2020-Jan-07 21:35
Not much, actually,  I only play 3 to 6 games at a time. No early game issue, bug only due to Martell usually being friendly at start.

Results mostly depend on mid-late game. Gives more safety against Dorne, but less CP.


Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
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Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: House Analysis - Tyrell
Posted: 2020-Jan-08 06:13
It seems to me that going to Searoad is needlessly provocative toward Lanni.  You get the exact same benefit from Three Towers.

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