Ok les talk a little about the best opening of house Tyrell.

Witch one do you think is best and why?
In all cases we move ship to WSS.

1) Knight on Reach and fm on Arbor.
You establish control of Reach before Baratheon cames near and claim it and you can cp from Arbor.

2) Knight on Oldtown and fm to Arbor.
It would be useful iv case of muster in 2nd turn.

3)Knight in Reach and fm on Oldtown.
For muster purposes in case we get mustering.

4)Knight on Oldtown and fm on Three Towers.
Muster or supply.

Please share your thoughts on what you should do and why. In all scenarios we dont attack Starfall.

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A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.

• 2019 World Cup Winner

Tend to say that it depends how the relationship is with house Martell.

If he seems friendly, Arbor is great for tokens. I tend to prefer 2 over 1. Rarely a priority to claim Reach that can be taken later, and conversely Reach is rarely a priority for Bara neither. And Oldtown helps pumping up ships and troops, with one ship in port for more PTs even if Dornish CP is not safe.

If Martell is uncertain or friendly, 4 is interesting (or can be done with Searoad instead of 3 Towers if Lannister is cool with that), because the march on the FM can be used to QoT in Starfall a march in ESS not to lose your fleet.

3 is... well, highly dependant on a muster. Less bad if Bara goes KL turn 1 as he'll take muster in case of ToB, but I am really not fan.

Last edited by Necrarch on 2021-Jan-25 14:32, edited 1x in total

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Judge
LoI&F: Seasons 10 and 11 King
France WCup team
2021: Bronze
2022: Silver

Oldtown is essential (mustering, cp* after clash, support of HG if Martell is hostile) and I always take it
For the second region there are two sensible possibilities, imho, Arbor and Three Towers. The reach just angers Bara and the best you can do there in round 2 is raid, but in such a situation Bara rarely plays cp, so your raid is useless. Searoad Marches has similar problems with Lanni instead of Bara. Arbor can CP and Three Towers generally can be left with a token, boosts your supply and allows you to go to many useful destinations (HG, OT, DM, Searoad, PP and SF). Thus my variants are:

A) knight -> OT, fm -> Arbor

And

B) fm -> OT, knight -> Three Towers

Dependent on what other players do:
Hostile Martell speaks for B, Many CP openings speak for A

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“The only way to treat disease is to understand disease.“

Thank you my Lords for your feedback.

Its interesting to have a fm/knight to use with QoT in case Martell is planning to attack your sea.

I always used to go knight in OT and fm in Arbor for cpand hope for muster.

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A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.

• 2019 World Cup Winner

That's the standard, but it can be risky if you lose your sea to Martell : your FM will be trapped and useless.

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Judge
LoI&F: Seasons 10 and 11 King
France WCup team
2021: Bronze
2022: Silver

With all due respect to Lord Necrarch, I think the distinction of whether Martell is "friendly" or not is meaningless in the context of the first turn's orders.  Because they are not going to have a chance to actually demonstrate their loyalty until after orders have been placed for turn 2.  Before that, all you could possibly have to go on is their words, and words are wind.  A savvy Martell knows that going after Tyrell's sea early is a matter of opportunism, and he will not really know if conditions are favorable until after they see the Westeros Cards. But even quite dumb Martells will know that if they do intend Tyrell harm, they only make things harder on themselves by announcing that intention a full turn before they can possibly reach them.  So an immediate offer of alliance from Tyrell is almost always going to be met with a "yes", regardless of whether it is sincere, insincere, or simply biding time to see what cards come.

For all that, I still tend to go with Knight to Oldtown and Footman to The Arbor.  As others have said, starting with the Reach or Searoad Marches just draws immediate negative attention that you don't need before you have had a chance to establish yourself.  You do risk stranding him on the Arbor if Martell is able to march into your sea on turn two.  But that only happens when you get no Muster or Clash, and even Rains Of Autumn (a frequent occurrence because it is often the best option for Greyjoy to limit his opponent's star order advantages) can put a damper on that plan. At the least, it will probably require him to spend a move masssing his ships for a 0 March, which gives you a chance to send QOT from the Arbor to Starfall to remove that March.

But also, putting the Footman in Three Towers still leaves him fairly stranded when you have lost sea transport as an option.  You can get him to Prince's Path from there, but Martell is not going to be rushing to engage you there when he is focusing all his power on WSS and Highgarden. Furthermore, when engaged in a war with Martell, going from 2-3 barrels or even 3-4 is not likely to make much difference, especially early on. Whereas establishing and maintaining your CP advantage is always going to be important no matter who you are fighting, but all the more so when facing Doran and a house that is pumping all their resources into mustering extra forces to overwhelm you quickly instead of hoarding gold. On balance, that is where I prefer to focus.

Last edited by Ser Hodor on 2021-Jan-26 08:01, edited 2x in total

Agreed with your analysis, Ser Hodor. That's kind of a bet situation where you have better chances if you know the Martell player. To notice though that several Martells, to keep the surprise effect, will not just pump 3 ships in WSS from their first CP*, but can need at least one move to regroup.

That's where the footman/knight in 3 Towers can help: if Marty needs that extra move, when you see M+1, you can send the guy to Starfall burn as much as it can, preventing the FM in Salt Shore to CP or using QoT or Garlan on FM in SF if he is there... Can serve as retaliation. But that's lots of ifs indeed, so the Arbor is almost never a bad solution.

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Judge
LoI&F: Seasons 10 and 11 King
France WCup team
2021: Bronze
2022: Silver

I agree, but anyways, a knight in TT can be a useful deterrent. And CP in DM&OT (if no clash comes) is only 1 PT worse than CP in DM&Arbor.

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“The only way to treat disease is to understand disease.“

1 PT can be rather decisive in the early game, though. And the difference increases another token when Game Of Thrones comes up.

Soooooo...in a game with no early clash or mustering what is the best way forward for tyrell?

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Not today.

1 PT can be rather decisive in the early game, though. And the difference increases another token when Game Of Thrones comes up.
Yes, but you are much more vulnerable to a round 2 Martell attack and only because you want to have 11 tokens instead of 10 at the end of round 2 (or 13 instead of 11 in case of a GoT). (Assuming no round 2 clash, which is the worse outcome for Tyrell)

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“The only way to treat disease is to understand disease.“

Indeed, once Martell attacks you it is best to go full tilt against them on land.  You can do a lot of damage there, as Xantipo  points out, and even if you aren't winning exactly you can still absorb some of Martell's more dangerous cards (particularly Doran, which can't really hurt you at the outset).  Once his hand is thinned out, WSS starts looking very inviting for Baratheon.

https://game.thronemaster.net/?review=1&game=204199

No clash nor muster till round 4. Martell crippled his hand and I managed to comeback from almost eliminated. You only need one muster to comeback after you thin Martell's hand. If you have been passively defending and letting him choose his battles ur screwed even after muster comes out.