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Forums > General > Westeros - No Support is bad

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First Sword of Braavos
^{Warden Of The North}

Posts: 24
Games: 322
Rank Points: 1,880
Member since: 2013-Nov-09

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Feb-13 13:41

Nothing ends good games faster than this card. Is it good or bad and why is it good or bad.

To start I will say that I do not like the card. It's the most significant of the cards removing orders and in my view, a huge boon to Lannister specifically. And a huge negative to Baratheon. Pairing a no support and Cercie can be devastating as you can't even then countermarch. It's a free in anywhere. The westeros deck cards shouldn't give a single house advantage and another house disadvantage no matter the strategy played by either house.

Web of Lies should be renamed to "Lannister goes from 5-7"

The Dark Ones Luck

Nomaris
^{Maester without a chain}

Posts: 2,463
Games: 389
Rank Points: 2,591
Member since: 2017-May-19

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Feb-13 14:17

Every house can profit from Web of Lies and every house can be devastated. It is a game changing card indeed. If you do not like it there is the option to play with 1st edition Westeros cards.

“The only way to treat disease is to understand disease.“

JukeboxHero
^{Stonemason's Apprentice}

Posts: 25
Games: 17
Rank Points: 22
Member since: 2017-Jul-18

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Feb-13 15:09

It's a great card. If anything, there should be one more in the deck. The worst is when it hits too early and no house can take advantage of it.

The beauty of that card is that it actually permits the thrilling and devastating advances that often get bogged down from the strong support systems that experienced players can set up. Also allows some particularly devious backstabbing to excellent effect. Without this card, I think Stark is too strong and can easily turtle to win.

RedWombat
^{Battle Commander}

Posts: 139
Games: 144
Rank Points: 1,135
Member since: 2019-Oct-06

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Feb-13 17:07

I have to agree with JukeboxHero here.

Web of Lies is necesarry in order to add some unpredictability and flow to the game. The game would otherwise be dominated by strong defensive positions based on unraidable support.

Especially Greyjoy, Martell and Bara can establish defenses at sea in the bay araeas that are impossible to overcome without Web of Lies.

...like I told one of my footmen the other day. "Everyone is expendable, but who wants to live forever anyway?".

Necrarch
^{Knight of Ni}

Posts: 2,050
Games: 135
Rank Points: 1,003
Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Feb-13 18:52

And for Martell, it can be the lifetime opportunity to get out of its corner.
Really positive about that card as well, even if it is by far the deadliest on deck 3.

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Sean Snow
^{Bastard of Winterfell}

Posts: 183
Games: 456
Rank Points: 3,026
Member since: 2018-Dec-12

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Feb-14 08:21

I lost 4 castles as Lannister in my home game last battle lol. Every game and situation is different the way i see it. Sure is exciting

Love is the Death of Duty

viblz
^{Battle Commander}

Posts: 29
Games: 242
Rank Points: 1,181
Member since: 2018-Oct-21

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Feb-26 12:04

I lost 4 castles as Lannister in my home game last battle lol. Every game and situation is different the way i see it. Sure is exciting
exactly what happened to me. when 9th turn was over i had 6 castles. COK and WEB OF LIES came into the cards and i finished with 2 castles only

First Sword of Braavos
^{Warden Of The North}

Posts: 24
Games: 322
Rank Points: 1,880
Member since: 2013-Nov-09

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Feb-27 09:32

I guess there are a couple things.

First, I was primarily thinking of 3 player games where Lannister has a good chance of using Cercei to optimal effect and Baratheon gets particularly disadvantaged in both land positioning and losing Sallahdor.

Second, we may be at an impasse if you guys think the devastating is just a good thing. I think it's game breaking in too many situations.

I think a better card would simply limit all players to 1 support order. That would be similar power to the other restrictive orders.

The Dark Ones Luck

Nomaris
^{Maester without a chain}

Posts: 2,463
Games: 389
Rank Points: 2,591
Member since: 2017-May-19

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Feb-27 10:05

I'd like to quote myself:

It is a game changing card indeed. If you do not like it there is the option to play with 1st edition Westeros cards.

“The only way to treat disease is to understand disease.“

First Sword of Braavos
^{Warden Of The North}

Posts: 24
Games: 322
Rank Points: 1,880
Member since: 2013-Nov-09

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Mar-05 09:33

Nomaris,

Thanks for that, I actually hadn't noticed the option before. But, I'm mostly trying to have a discussion about the card more than asking how to deal with it.

And of course I don't think any of the other 2nd edition westeros cards are unbalanced.

The Dark Ones Luck

Nomaris
^{Maester without a chain}

Posts: 2,463
Games: 389
Rank Points: 2,591
Member since: 2017-May-19

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Mar-05 09:49

Ok. I just wanted to point out the option.

@topic: I hate it when web of lies happens in round 2 as Bara with cp opening, since this normally delays KL and BW for another round and makes you vulnerable to an early Martell (or Stark) attack against SBB. Interestingly this happened to me very often: in 6 of 26 6p games with CP opening. That's a rate of 23.1% which is more than two times the expected value (10%).

“The only way to treat disease is to understand disease.“

Khal Meat
^Knight

Posts: 14
Games: 165
Rank Points: 518
Member since: 2019-Oct-23

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Mar-05 13:32

Must admit I am also not a huge fan of the card but in the right situation it can pay dividends for you.

I tend to hope it comes out in the early rounds

☠ Dele✝ed User

One disappeared.
One came back from the dead.

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Mar-05 14:29

Awesome card in mid-game and worst at the end and the beginning.. But it great anyways

Last edited by MODERATOR on 2020-Mar-05 14:29, edited 1x in total

Ser Hodor
^{Son Of Hodor}

Posts: 756
Games: 1,331
Rank Points: 10,054
Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Mar-16 17:40

Without WOL, you would have to completely redesign the board or houses to give Martell a shot at winning.

It's hugely destablizing in a way none of the other Deck III cards are, but that's part of the fun.

Jorkstra
^{A Nice Guy}

Posts: 27
Games: 197
Rank Points: 1,071
Member since: 2020-Feb-13

Topic: Westeros - No Support is bad
Posted: 2020-Mar-16 20:41

This game is to "stable" at some point. WOL makes this game a bit chaotic and as we all know "Chaos is a Ladder"

There should be at least one more so "chaotic" card to make this game even more unpredictable.

I wish there were all Wildlings Cards, that should do the trick.

May the Force be with you!

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