What ive picked up from the discussion so far is:

- tyrell cannot hope to move north and HOLD territory, moving north is a hit and KILL tactic.

- in southern alliance games, tyrell must consolidate and WAIT for the right time to move north.

- tyrell has a tendency to overextend when he moves north, allowing other houses to largely benefit from this action.

If you disagree with any of these points, please let me know.

From these points, i feel that an experienced tyrell player would be hesitant about moving north during the MIDGAME. I agree that moving north is a great tactic late game. Agree/disagree?

Last edited by wazza on 2018-Apr-21 03:40, edited 1x in total

What ive picked up from the discussion so far is:

- tyrell is cannot hope to move north and HOLD territory, moving north is a hit and KILL tactic.

- in southern alliance games, tyrell must consolidate and WAIT for the right time to move north.

- tyrell has a tendency to overextend when he moves north, allowing other houses to largely benefit from this action.

If you disagree with any of these points, please let me know.

From these points, i feel that an experienced tyrell player would be hesitant about moving north during the MIDGAME. I agree that moving north is a great tactic late game. Agree/disagree?
I disagree with a few of these statements, or at least partially hehe. Here’s my points if you will

- regarding moving north, it depends if you can secure the seas or not. If you can take and hold them, it’s no longer a hit and kill tactic.

- in southern alliance games, you could strike earlier, and not necessarily only north. It’s usually the case because you need to build up strength as Tyrell, but more importantly you’ll have less opportunities earlier on. You could always attack and strike earlier in the game depending on what other players do, Westeros cards, and cash results.

- it again depends on when and how you move north, and what else is happening on the map. If martell is knee deep in shipbreakers bay, I doubt he’ll have time to launch a counteroffensive in the WSS, especially if you’re on good terms with him.

But im talking about the situations that TYPICALLY come up in a western alliance game. The usual situation is that everyone claims their land first, and then everyone tries to pressure their enemy and help their ally.
Theres very little chance tyrell can ever secure northern sea territory. Good luck to those that try haha.
If you strike north early, greyjoy and lanni are going to MAKE YOU PAY. And martell may also decided to hit you while youre vulnerable. You cant hold western and southern seas safely. I agree that if martell is in shipbreaker, it makes moving north easier, but only a terrible baratheon player easily loses shipbreaker when stark is busy with greyjoy.

Last edited by wazza on 2018-Apr-21 03:42, edited 2x in total

The timing of Tyrell actions really depends on how many Mustering cards there were (more early mustering allows Tyrell to act faster), when clashes came (usually Tyrell should overpower other houses and thrive with mid-game clashes) and what other players do.

Thus I'd repeat what I said before and disagree with all statements trying to generalize the situation.

Also worth noting that Tyrell can hold anything he wants including Ironman seas after he got the Sword and enough ships. Check some of the game links I dropped if you are really interested.

Last edited by Cornie4ever on 2018-Apr-21 09:27, edited 5x in total

But im talking about the situations that TYPICALLY come up in a western alliance game. The usual situation is that everyone claims their land first, and then everyone tries to pressure their enemy and help their ally.
Theres very little chance tyrell can ever secure northern sea territory. Good luck to those that try haha.
If you strike north early, greyjoy and lanni are going to MAKE YOU PAY. And martell may also decided to hit you while youre vulnerable. You cant hold western and southern seas safely. I agree that if martell is in shipbreaker, it makes moving north easier, but only a terrible baratheon player easily loses shipbreaker when stark is busy with greyjoy. You're looking for a typical situation, but the idea here is that you can usually find your break when something atypical happens in the game to tilt the balance in your favor or give you an opportunity to strike.

I think Zsa is on the right track here; the interesting thing about this game is that it resists "typical game" descriptions.  There are always wrinkles galore in any full game once you get a couple rounds in, and Web Of Lies and to a lesser extent sea of storms can always throw things into disarray at a moment's notice.

A couple other thoughts:

Tyrell going north is riskier, and harder to hold as noted.  But the key to recognize is that if you have a solid supply base and stars to work with, you can afford trade armies with your northern opponents.  If you can steadily backfill ships/knights in Oldtown or HG, you can wear them down rather quickly even if you are stranding some of your forces in enemy territory at times.  I've noticed that a "lone" Tyrell army of even 2 knights can be surprisingly hard to kill once it is roaming abroad.

On the Martell flip side, I noticed someone commenting that when clash doesn't come, Tyrell can't be too aggressive.  And I don't think that is always true. If you pick up an early muster or two, and Martell has shown signs of aggression or duplicity, I think hitting back is entirely viable.  The only upside of Tyrell's shite starting positions is that you have basically nothing to fear from Doran until a clash comes around. Better to draw him out before a clash than after.  Though really, Martell will probably try to save him for later, which also helps a bit in that it makes his card selection more predictable and top-heavy.

It's not the fight you want to be having, but as Baelish says, "when you find yourself in bed with an ugly girl, best to close your eyes and get on with it."

What ive picked up from the discussion so far is:

- tyrell cannot hope to move north and HOLD territory, moving north is a hit and KILL tactic.

- in southern alliance games, tyrell must consolidate and WAIT for the right time to move north.

- tyrell has a tendency to overextend when he moves north, allowing other houses to largely benefit from this action.



If you disagree with any of these points, please let me know.

From these points, i feel that an experienced tyrell player would be hesitant about moving north during the MIDGAME. I agree that moving north is a great tactic late game. Agree/disagree?   Not being able to hold northern territories isn't really a problem--or how it can be a "balanced" game?Tyrell has many other choices too.When GJ/Lanni allliance comes up and there's a brutal war between Lanni and Bara,betraying Martell sometimes becomes viable,espeicially after he gets patchfaced.The game is the most balanced with 3 1vs1--GJ vs Stark,Lanni vs Bara,Tyrell vs Martell though GJ has higher winrate in this case.Attacking Lannister together with Bara is also an option,but if GJ betrays Lanni later by taking Lanni's homeland territories he will get quite benefited.When GJ/Lanni fight,expanding on land is a better choice.You can choose to crush Bara on land or take Lanni's territories from GJ.
  Another problem is,Martell is threatening during the entire game.Don't be convinced too early that you will go north.For Martell, attcking Tyrell and being alllied with Baratheon is better for himself when no clash/mustering occurs on turn 2. Or (s)he can even get "allied" with Tyrell in turn 1 and be a turn 2 backstabber!Even if (s)he keeps his/her words when you're weak early,when you go north and he fails to conquer Bara,attacking you becomes the only option if (s)he wants to win.Why don't you betray your ally when backstabbing benefits more?
  In a word,there are 2 points here:first,you have a variety of paths to glorious,not necessarily going north;second,the real problem is not about your enemy,it's your so-called "allies" who dont always keep their words.