targarien 14 minutes ago

6p live up please

targarien 1 h 5 min ago

6p live up please

konrad98ft 2 h 59 min ago

3/6

Soda-can 4 hours ago

Looking to make a vao soon! 1/6 LIVE

shuxxx 5 hours ago

+ unrated 3p please

RadoslawWRO 5 hours ago

Could anyone create unrated 3p?

eilon53 6 hours ago

2/3 live

D_jaja 8 hours ago

2/3

iamstrong698 18 hours ago

can any Mot create a live 6p game with house selecting?

targarien 19 hours ago

6p live up please

omriex7 20 hours ago

6p live 4/6

Attiko 20 hours ago

3/6 live

RadoslawWRO 20 hours ago

Could anyone create unrated 3p?

Sir Garion 21 hours ago

2/3

Sir Garion 21 hours ago

3p up

GodlyXfire 21 hours ago

Yes please a 3p

RadoslawWRO 21 hours ago

Could anyone create unrated 3p?

targarien 21 hours ago

6p live up

smnmslh 22 hours ago

3p live up

holtaf 23 hours ago

2/3

I could have been an App ;-(



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ned1
One Of The Kingsguard

Posts: 66
Games: 208
Rank Points: 908
Member since: 2014-Jan-30

Topic: Tides of Battle- bringing more balance to an unbalanced game
Posted: 2022-Oct-29 23:03
I just wanted to review some of the statistics associated with Tides of Battle, versus not using these cards.  The group that I usually play with doesn't like them- they're too random, and they enjoy the fact that this game has only a few random parts to it.  Battles are more of a psychological affair than one of chance.

But looking at the statistics, in normal games with no tides of battle, Stark and Greyjoy are by far the most likely houses to win.  The Tyrell player will be discouraged, knowing that this house has only won 9.3% of games.  Let's look at the stats for no ToB:

Stark: 22.8%
Greyjoy: 22.7%
Baratheon: 17.1%
Martell: 16.6%
Lannister: 11.4%
Tyrell: 9.3%

This type of game would be impossible to balance win rates between all houses, and I don't think anyone would really enjoy that anyway.  The geography of the map itself is unbalanced.  However, let's look at what ToB does for the win stats:

Stark: 24.1%
Greyjoy: 21.6%
Martell: 15.5%
Baratheon: 14.5%
Lannister: 13.2%
Tyrell: 11%

So Stark, the leading house, enjoys a 2% increase.  But the other three leading houses, Baratheon, Greyjoy, and Martell, all suffer a decrease, and the bottom two houses Lannister and Tyrell enjoy a 2% increase in win rates.

It appears then that ToB does offer a small benefit in making the game slightly more balanced.  This benefit won't sit well with players who enjoy being able to predict every single variable in the battle, but it does reflect a bit more realism is uncontrollable variables in battles (such as the weather, morale, officership, and other intangibles).

For me, this change is worth it, and I will be using ToB in more of my hosted games in the future.  It's also a refreshing difference from years of playing without them.

What does the community think?  Is ToB the best way to even out the win rates of the houses, or are there other less random ways to achieve this?  The statistics tab on this website is a wonderful tool for analyzing this.
Necrarch
Knight of Ni

Posts: 2,065
Games: 135
Rank Points: 1,003
Member since: 2019-Feb-01

Topic: Tides of Battle- bringing more balance to an unbalanced game
Posted: 2022-Oct-29 23:10
I am not a big fan of ToB, have to say, for the reason quoted above : adding this random factor does not fit very well to the philosophy of this luck-factor-not-too-dependent game (W Cards are already a big thing).

As for rebalancing the classical 6p, feel free to drop an eye on the dedicated thread.
https://www.thronemaster.net/?goto=community&sub=forum&fid=3&tid=77388#top


Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
Games: 1,331
Rank Points: 10,054
Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: Tides of Battle- bringing more balance to an unbalanced game
Posted: 2022-Oct-31 22:47
I would agree that the Westeros cards already introduce ample randomness in the scheme of things with 3-5 possibilities for wildly different results in 3 different decks, rerun 9 different times throughout a full game.  And while I'm not opposed in principle to introducing some degree of randomness at the individual battle level, I find the thing that still puts me off them is that, even if they do tend to increase overall balance in results, they also tend to make people play even more cautiously than they would without them. And if the price of a more balanced game is that it is also a more dull one, I'm still not as interested in playing the "more perfect" version.
Gacek15
Squire

Posts: 8
Games: 110
Rank Points: 387
Member since: 2023-Mar-20

Topic: Tides of Battle- bringing more balance to an unbalanced game
Posted: 2024-Feb-28 10:50
Tides do make for a way more interesting game tho. Pulling a win from certain defeat or accidentaly winning with Roose? That is unexpected, makes someone vulnerable and vulnerability creates action. The point of tides is not take make ppl play more cautiously, but to embolden them and make every game more fun and unique
Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

Posts: 756
Games: 1,331
Rank Points: 10,054
Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: Tides of Battle- bringing more balance to an unbalanced game
Posted: 2024-Mar-29 15:42
Tides do make for a way more interesting game tho. Pulling a win from certain defeat or accidentaly winning with Roose? That is unexpected, makes someone vulnerable and vulnerability creates action. The point of tides is not take make ppl play more cautiously, but to embolden them and make every game more fun and unique
But does it actually work that way?  In my limited experience, it didn't seem to.
18HopeCSF
Sword of the Forest

Posts: 245
Games: 586
Rank Points: 3,309
Member since: 2019-Feb-09

Topic: Tides of Battle- bringing more balance to an unbalanced game
Posted: 2024-May-21 01:02
Tides do make for a way more interesting game tho. Pulling a win from certain defeat or accidentaly winning with Roose? That is unexpected, makes someone vulnerable and vulnerability creates action. The point of tides is not take make ppl play more cautiously, but to embolden them and make every game more fun and unique
But does it actually work that way?  In my limited experience, it didn't seem to.
I think it depends a lot on the people who's playing. In my group the experience is VERY positive. Nobody would even think about playing without Tides.

In my games, people were more bold playing with Tides, I've seen a lot of players attacking despite being -2 on overall strength. Sometimes it was crap, but several times there were epic wins! And to be honest, people always remember those.

Another curious thing is how the Lannister-Greyjoy "imbalance" gets affected. In my group we never had that problem. I only knew about it when I started playing online here. It's incredible, but Tides end up balancing the field. I think that despite having the sword, Greyjoy has much more to loose from unexpected looses than Lanni.


Gacek15
Squire

Posts: 8
Games: 110
Rank Points: 387
Member since: 2023-Mar-20

Topic: Tides of Battle- bringing more balance to an unbalanced game
Posted: 2024-May-27 14:41
In my games, people were more bold playing with Tides, I've seen a lot of players attacking despite being -2 on overall strength. Sometimes it was crap, but several times there were epic wins! And to be honest, people always remember those.

Another curious thing is how the Lannister-Greyjoy "imbalance" gets affected. In my group we never had that problem. I only knew about it when I started playing online here. It's incredible, but Tides end up balancing the field. I think that despite having the sword, Greyjoy has much more to loose from unexpected looses than Lanni.

I had some epic plays (done to me) with it too. Attacking Winterfell with 2 knights and Balon vs a Stark who played Eddard in hope of gettin 3-0 (it was a new player, hence the extremely stupid play). It paid off, he killed both my knights and i lost the game with 1 ship remaining at the very end.

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