Hello, I remember seeing an old post about is but I have difficulty finding it.

I was thinking of doing a 4 player game with some friends. I have the Base game and every Expansion. One friend expressed a desire to play a game with the southern houses, but he thinks 6 players is too many.

I was thinking of a Southern Rumble match between Houses Lannister, Tyrell, Martell and either Baratheon OR Arryn.

I was thinking of making Pyke and Winterfell inacessible. And, depending on whether we're playing with Arryn or Baratheon, either Dragonstone or White harbor would be inacessible. I'm reallly leaning towards including House Arryn rather than Baratheon so that someone can contest Moat Cailin and Seagard.

I was thinking of perhaps Upgrading a castle to a stronghold. Perhaps The Reach would make a nice prize to fight over.

If Arryn were included, which I'm thinking of doing, I'm also using the tile that adds the Vale of Arryn Castle.


I was thinking of basing the tracks on the Mother of Dragons expansion screen if we were to include Arryn;
Iron Throne - Lannister, Martel, Tyrel, Arryn
Fiefdom - Tyrel, Martel, Arryn, Lannister
King's Court - Lannister, Martel, Tyrel, Arryn

And otherwise it would be based on the base game;
Iron Throne - Baratheon, Lannister, Martel, Tyrel
Fiefdom - Tyrel, Martel,  Baratheon, Lannister
Kings Court - Lannister,  Martel, Baratheon, Tyrel

Do people have thoughts on some of the northern castles? I was thinking of making FLint's FInger's inacessible because otherwise Lannister has a really easy time without Stark. But maybe adding a Castle or Stronghold to the Twins. Do people have any thoughts?

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"Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it."
- Winston Churchill

Sounds like an interesting twist to the game. Have fun trying it out!

Apart from the fair distribution of access to barrels and crowns, I think it's important to stick to the most important basic principle of all game variants: Three strongholds or castles are directly accessible to each party, from the fourth stronghold/castle onwards it should become an obstacle. In the proposed variant, for example, it would be worth considering making it more difficult for Martell to gain access to Storms End by placing a neutral power there, as she might otherwise take advantage of all the other parties too quickly.

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"No man gives me a lemon cake. I pay the seaberry price. I will bake my cake." - Asha Greyiron -

I implemented your comment, and a friend of mine wanted to include the Bite. I have a link to the screenshot of the board, it might be more easily visualized;
https://jmp.sh/s/CWjHktVQsuuRSXV8kyEe

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"Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it."
- Winston Churchill

We also felt like adding the ability to march from the Bite to Bay of Ice

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"Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it."
- Winston Churchill

That looks very inviting. Why don't you write here afterwards how it turned out? I'll put two power tokens on Arryn.

Basically, I see two things I would change:

SE should have a 6 as the strength of the neutral power and I agree that The Bite seems kind of redundant here, since it's also really just there to balance Stark and Arryn a bit.

Who will Robert throw through the moon door - The Viper or Tywin?

Have fun!

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"No man gives me a lemon cake. I pay the seaberry price. I will bake my cake." - Asha Greyiron -

Found back an old post describing their variant :

"I quite like the "Rumble in the South".
Played it a couple of times when we were with just four people.

In this variant, Stark and Greyjoy are unplayable and their lands are impassable. The impassable regions thus include: Bay of Ice, Flint's Finger, Ironman's Bay, Seagard, The Mountains of the Moon and The Narrow Sea. This variant is excellent at creating a true 4-way battle with shifting alliances! However I tend to make the win condition only 6 castles instead of 7 to speed up the game.
I did the math before and the balance is still the same. So there is still the same amount of castles, barrels, crowns and such available on average for each player.

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But your variant seems very interesting - test it and let us know how it works

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Thanks!

Yes, also a nice idea; they made the required number of castles lower and excluded quite a few additional castles. I do remember it being from before the Mother of Dragons expansion. I'll tell you how it goes. I intend to play next week on saturday the 29th. I'm eager to play as House Arryn and the other players are okay with me having the choice.

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"Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it."
- Winston Churchill

How do people feel about Neutral forces? There is a 6 strength Neutral force on Storm's End and King's Landing. I initially thought of putting a lower value Neutral force on Flint's Finger and Harrenhal as well (3 an 4).

Do people agree with that?

I think Lannister has a much stronger position in this version (even with us ading the ability to march from thee Narrow Sea to Bay of Ice) and is less threatened from the north because we're not including Greyjoy and Stark.

Or is the 3 (or 4) Neutral Force on Flint's Finger too much because it also delays Tyrel if they want to reach out to the North?

And, another question I have is:
How much of the North should be unavailable?
Should the entire North be unavailable? Or just Winterfel and White Harbor? Would it be more flavorful if just Castle Black were available? (since it's neutral)
I do think it would be nice for House Arryn if they could place an infantry in Karhold or Castle Black to harvest Power Tokens, although they could also do that from the Vale of Arryn area.

Last edited by Mizel on 2025-Mar-19 23:50, edited 4x in total

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"Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it."
- Winston Churchill

I was thinking of basing the tracks on the Mother of Dragons expansion screen if we were to include Arryn;
Iron Throne - Arryn, Lannister, Martel, Tyrel,
Fiefdom - Tyrel, Martel, Lannister, Arryn
King's Court - Lannister, Martel, Arryn, Tyrel

I implemented your comment, and a friend of mine wanted to include the Bite. I have a link to the screenshot of the board, it might be more easily visualized;
https://jmp.sh/s/CWjHktVQsuuRSXV8kyEe link is not working

We just played our Southern Rumble. I made a few pictures while playing. We ended up playing 2 games because I won the first one quite decisively.
I used a different site (an I made an account) so, hopefully you'll be able to see the pictures for the 2 games.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/SynLPgx


Since this was a game with other people I discussed everything with them. We ended up playing with a slightly different set of rules than we discussed here.
1) Unavailable area's
Pyke, Dragonstone, as well as the entire North was unavailable.

A friend of mine felt like turning the North into a single huge Sea Area (so every side could sail back and forth) and this actually ended up mattering in the second game.

In the end I think that my option of being able to march from Bay of Ice to The Narrow Sea was more elegant. But we also did this mostly because my friend felt like the Northeast and West should be able to reach each other with ships.

2) Neutral forces
We ended up playing with the suggested 6 force on Storm's End. The usual 5 on King's Landing. I won the first game quite quickly, which is why we played a second one. In the second one we ended up placing a 4 Neutral Force on Moat Cailin.

The southern players ended up never capturing Storm's End. The consensus among everyone was that perhaps a 5 would have allowed it to be opened up.

> How the games went;
1)
I started both games as House Arryn, which was a novel experience and pretty exciting. House Arryn starts on the 4th place of the King's Court track so you get no special orders. This meant I opened up both games by fully gambling on a Mustering coming up.

The funny thing was that in Game 1 Mustering didn't come up until round 3 or 4. In Game 2 Mustering came a bit sooner, but it still felt late. It's pretty fun that House Arryn starts with slightly superior units, but they can't muster, yet.


> Overall feeling
Due to my aggressive playing everyone else did feel like Arryn should be slowed down a little. This might be due to me having much more experience. Maybe I overdid it a little, but on the other hand it was the only viable play (because I had no special Orders).

After the first game everyone did feel like there should be a Neutral Force on Moat Cailin and in the second game we ended up removing the castle in Harrenhall (I welcomed the challenge, but I'm not sure if it would be fair in a game where everyone is evenly matched)

The thing is that it didn't quite become the 'Southern Rumble' that the game was referred to as. It ended up being more of a side by side 1v1.
Arryn spent both games just fighting Lannister. Tyrel and Martel ended up in a slugging match both games.

There needs to be something to drive people South. I'm thinking that it would be neat to perhaps downgrade Seagard to a regular Castle. Remove Moat Cailin or give it a 6 Neutral Force and I think I would perhaps add a Stronghold to the Reach to make sure people have a real reason to march south.
Perhaps I would remove the border between Blackwater Bay and Shipbreaker bay so that it's easier for Martel and Arryn to contest that center (and KL).
Perhaps a different player should be Arryn next time, because I was a much more advanced player. Perhaps it is worth considering a more beginner-friendly version where we don't use the 3/4-player tile (so that Arryn can also Muster units) and having Arryn have a Knight and 2 Footmen, like the rest.

We did have fun just fighting each other and going back and forth, so it was a very succesful day. Next time I play the Board Game I'm thinking of doing the Feast for Crows Expansion OR doing a 5 player game with Vassals.

Last edited by Mizel on 2025-Mar-29 17:33, edited 1x in total

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"Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it."
- Winston Churchill

We just played our Southern Rumble. I made a few pictures while playing. We ended up playing 2 games because I won the first one quite decisively.
Two Tokens for me then.

A friend of mine felt like turning the North into a single huge Sea Area (so every side could sail back and forth) and this actually ended up mattering in the second game.
Sounds more like Blood Rage after all.

The southern players ended up never capturing Storm's End. The consensus among everyone was that perhaps a 5 would have allowed it to be opened up.
Try, try, try.

How the games went;
1)
I started both games as House Arryn, which was a novel experience and pretty exciting. House Arryn starts on the 4th place of the King's Court track so you get no special orders. This meant I opened up both games by fully gambling on a Mustering coming up.
Intelligible. Playing Arryn with the MOD hc is a lot of fun.

The funny thing was that in Game 1 Mustering didn't come up until round 3 or 4. In Game 2 Mustering came a bit sooner, but it still felt late. It's pretty fun that House Arryn starts with slightly superior units, but they can't muster, yet.
I presume that's why she has 6 a/dp and 4 dp as her home castle's strength in the first place.

Overall feeling
Due to my aggressive playing everyone else did feel like Arryn should be slowed down a little. This might be due to me having much more experience.
The ToB module can have a balancing impact on the board, especially when noobs are partaking who don't know about effective opening moves based on a keen knowledge about their house's strengths and weaknesses. Rushing into them can be more risky.

The thing is that it didn't quite become the 'Southern Rumble' that the game was referred to as. It ended up being more of a side by side 1v1.
Arryn spent both games just fighting Lannister. Tyrel and Martel ended up in a slugging match both games.
In 4p games, more than in the other variants, the main focus should be on balancing the board, to a lesser extent on immediate payback. The more often you play with them, the better they will understand that. If your friends want a rematch anytime soon, you might think about sending them Zizzeus' guide in advance. It's a 5 minute read per house.

There needs to be something to drive people South. I'm thinking that it would be neat to perhaps downgrade Seagard to a regular Castle. Remove Moat Cailin or give it a 6 Neutral Force and I think I would perhaps add a Stronghold to the Reach to make sure people have a real reason to march south.
Perhaps I would remove the border between Blackwater Bay and Shipbreaker bay so that it's easier for Martel and Arryn to contest that center (and KL).
Perhaps a different player should be Arryn next time, because I was a much more advanced player. Perhaps it is worth considering a more beginner-friendly version where we don't use the 3/4-player tile (so that Arryn can also Muster units) and having Arryn have a Knight and 2 Footmen, like the rest.
I don't think that this is necessary, but that's up to you, of course.

We did have fun just fighting each other and going back and forth, so it was a very succesful day. Next time I play the Board Game I'm thinking of doing the Feast for Crows Expansion OR doing a 5 player game with Vassals.
I'd stick to the variant your friends know already. The rule-set can be overwhelming at the beginning, adding more variants fast might add to the confusion instead of steadying their game-play. (Just look this forum's questions about Westeros' GoT up. You'd be surprised)

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"No man gives me a lemon cake. I pay the seaberry price. I will bake my cake." - Asha Greyiron -

Two Tokens for me then.
Yes, you did say that your money was on Arryn. Was this because you thought Arryn had some advantage? Or because you knew I was more experienced?
I asked you if I should have them have less superior units since they're not surrounded by Baratheon, Stark and Targaryen and you said no.

The ToB module can have a balancing impact on the board, especially when noobs are partaking who don't know about effective opening moves based on a keen knowledge about their house's strengths and weaknesses. Rushing into them can be more risky.
Hmmmm, perhaps I should introduce Tides of Battle, then.

I did, and do really assist them in the first turn with their Order Placement.
We always go through it player by player and I also explain the logic behind my opening moves. And I also used the moment I placed a March-1 on my ship in the Harbor at the Eyrie to show that you need to place seperate orders on the harbor and the land area it connects to.
I always explain the Baratheon player about the KL-rush opener as well as the safer Muster in Dragonstone / March from Kingswood opener, for example.

I'm just playing small 3/4-player introductory games, working up to a 6-player game at some point.

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"Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it."
- Winston Churchill

Yes, you did say that your money was on Arryn. Was this because you thought Arryn had some advantage? Or because you knew I was more experienced?
I don't think that we ever had the pleasure. I simply consider Arryn's deck one of the strongest, if not the strongest in the game.

I asked you if I should have them have less superior units since they're not surrounded by Baratheon, Stark and Targaryen and you said no.
Indeed and I stick to that advice. It's not comparable to trying to teach children chess and giving up your queen and/or rooks to start with. I don't think that's necessary for adults.

Hmmmm, perhaps I should introduce Tides of Battle, then.
... and it's more fun.

I did, and do really assist them in the first turn with their Order Placement.
We always go through it player by player and I also explain the logic behind my opening moves. And I also used the moment I placed a March-1 on my ship in the Harbor at the Eyrie to show that you need to place seperate orders on the harbor and the land area it connects to.
I always explain the Baratheon player about the KL-rush opener as well as the safer Muster in Dragonstone / March from Kingswood opener, for example.
I've been there. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. My conclusion is/was that the game only makes sense with fans or people who, even without knowing this game, like to play board games a lot. The former read the rulebook and look stuff up themselves beforehand, the latter usually quickly recognize the logic of the game.
When we had completely new people with us, we usually played 2 or 3 trial rounds and then really got started. Moreover, our house rule was that mistakes when placing orders could be corrected in the first round (but only then).

I'm just playing small 3/4-player introductory games, working up to a 6-player game at some point.
Good luck! Btw., I consider the introduction of vassals in the MOD expansion to be a rather sophisticated and tactically very interesting addition to the game.

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"No man gives me a lemon cake. I pay the seaberry price. I will bake my cake." - Asha Greyiron -

However, you still owe us the answer to this question:

Who will Robert throw through the moon door - The Viper or Tywin?

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"No man gives me a lemon cake. I pay the seaberry price. I will bake my cake." - Asha Greyiron -

Right. In the first game I actually did manage to take the Viper out of the game. In the second one I used him against Lannister, which he anticipated by using Tyrion, but then I picked Ser Jaime instead. (He should have let Robert throw Tyrion through the door)

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"Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it."
- Winston Churchill