I am always looking for further improvements of the 9-player and try to combine the best rules of the different expansions of the boardgame.

In the Clash of Kings expansion the One time orders were an interesting thing, which many players like to play with (poll). For those who are not familiar to the original rules: Each House was provided with two "Recruit," one "Supply
Caravan," one "Forced March," and one unique order.

In the 2nd Edition one aspect of the One time orders was adopted with the ability to muster with the CP* order. How do you think about, when we would also adopt the possibilty to increase the supply level temporarily with the CP* order?

When resolved, its player may immediately increase his/her Supply level on the Supply track by the number of Barrel icons in the area. Thus a player can temporarily inflate his Supply until the next Supply card is resolved during the Westeros Phase (when the player must move his Supply level back to its accurate level).

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

I think CP* is already powerful enough. Allowing it to also adjust the supply track will make people without CP* orders significantly weaker the longer no new Clash of Kings is selected. Its already pretty hard if your opponent can muster and you can't, so with this change this situation will become even worse.

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~ Not every Lannister is fool for glory ~

^^

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I am planning to change the map a little for the next game. Storms End shall lose the coastline to the Sea of Dorne.
At the end of all three finished games Martell owned Storms End and Baratheon had problems to defend it although its Baratheons home region.

Here is the draft of the new map:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yobob117ok2556e/Initial_Setup_v2.jpg

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

But then we should think about giving Martell an additional Mustering Point somewhere. Otherwise I see it coming that he'll have to stick with his 4 Mustering Points probably the whole game.

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I don't think this is such a good idea given that there are 3 castles in close proximity to King's Landing, and Baratheon already has an advantage with Storm's End being a home region. If Baratheon wishes to keep a tighter hold of it there is nothing to stop him from putting a fortification there at some point.

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I was play both of them. My proposal is give port to SE to Sea of Dorne and give him in start position Knight to SE and 2 foots to KL.

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First of all i have little statistical analysis.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dluwgccsgxcdo28/Statistics.png

If your are interested i have additionally four games from other websites with similiar setups:
https://agotpbem.yuku.com/topic/779/W3-9player-Round-IV?page=4#.U-kiJPlv49Y --> Martell victory
https://agotpbem.yuku.com/topic/940/W5-9player-Round-VI?page=4#.U-kkAvlv49Y --> Arryn victory
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/926748/agot-2e-pbf272-rematch-9-player-family-honour-bloo/page/94 --> Baratheon victory
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/812228/agot-2e-pbf27-9-player-high-honor/page/47 --> Arryn victory


But then we should think about giving Martell an additional Mustering Point somewhere. Otherwise I see it coming that he'll have to stick with his 4 Mustering Points probably the whole game.
In the three previous games Martell ended with 4,2,3 victory points ahead of Baratheon. In all games Martell ended with minimum 4 victory points while Baratheon was only able to gain 4 victory points in one game.
You are complaining about that Martell is sticked to 4 Victory points? Thats more compared to the case when you would distributed all VP equally among all players.
When you would remove one VP from Martells VPs at the end of every game and add it to the Baratheons VP, Martell would still be above the average, while Baratheon would hit the average. Even if you would add the removed VP to Targaryens VPs the deviations from the average would be smaller.

Chsnging from statistics to the board:
Martell has a safe support from Sea of Dorne which cant be raided. Baratheon is not able to create such a safe support. Roseroad, Kingswood and Shipbreaker Bay will always be raidable. Martell can place a siege engine to his coastline and will be able to wait for the mistake of Baratheon. As a result of that Martell ended in all games with owning Storms End.

Even with the map change Martell will still be able to conquer Storms End. But he has to use the way over Boneway or Cape Wrath.

I don't think this is such a good idea given that there are 3 castles in close proximity to King's Landing, and Baratheon already has an advantage with Storm's End being a home region. If Baratheon wishes to keep a tighter hold of it there is nothing to stop him from putting a fortification there at some point.
In not a single game Baratheon was able to play a CP order in Storms End because he is busy enough to defend it. At the beginning of Turn 3 Baratheon was never in Storms End.

I was play both of them. My proposal is give port to SE to Sea of Dorne and give him in start position Knight to SE and 2 foots to KL. In "reality" Storms End is only connected to the Shipbreaker Bay. So there wont be a port in Sea of Dorne with me.
Of course we can change the starting setup but this wont change anything. Even if Baratheon was able to conquer Storms End in the first turn, he lost it in Turn 2. That wont be different with another setup.

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

In the three previous games Martell ended with 4,2,3 victory points ahead of Baratheon. In all games Martell ended with minimum 4 victory points while Baratheon was only able to gain 4 victory points in one game.
You are complaining about that Martell is sticked to 4 Victory points? Thats more compared to the case when you would distributed all VP equally among all players.
When you would remove one VP from Martells VPs at the end of every game and add it to the Baratheons VP, Martell would still be above the average, while Baratheon would hit the average. Even if you would add the removed VP to Targaryens VPs the deviations from the average would be smaller.

Chsnging from statistics to the board:
Martell has a safe support from Sea of Dorne which cant be raided. Baratheon is not able to create such a safe support. Roseroad, Kingswood and Shipbreaker Bay will always be raidable. Martell can place a siege engine to his coastline and will be able to wait for the mistake of Baratheon. As a result of that Martell ended in all games with owning Storms End.


I am not complaining about the 3 victory points Martell will have after moving Storms End away from the coast, but about the 4 Mustering Points it will have to stick to (in the beginning at least). Of course this is within the average, but you have to take into consideration that most other houses with even or less Mustering Points have a direct chance (by sea) to get at least 5 (for example Greyjoy can try to take Seagard or Targaryen Storms End), whereas Martell won't have the opportunity. His only hope would be to wait for a mistake/chance of his neighbours in Shipbreaker Bay or West Summer Sea.

In my opinion Storms End will hardly belong to Martell very long. You are right, Martell can attack with a Siege Engine, but it would be horribly vulnerable once in there either from sea or by land.

If you want to have a look at the statistics, Martell is in the lead, but you have to remember that his victory in the first game was heavily implied by a large mistake of Tyrell (switching the orders in port and redwyne straights), otherwise he probably wouldn't have succeeded in his campaign and would have gotten huge pressure by Greyjoy and Bara in the next move. Beside this first match Martell wasn't able to conquer any other castle/stronghold in enemy/neutral territory (with the exception of Storms End).
And by taking him his (up to now) secure Storms End, he will lose 2 Mustering Points every time Mustering comes up and one of his neighbours (either Targaryen or Baratheon) will have 2 more. So this might be a difference of 4 Mustering Points if this one is his enemy.

All in all I stay with my opinion that Martell would be debuffed too much, instead I suggest to add a small castle to Cape Wrath. This will initially belong to Martell, but can be contested by Targ and Bara by the time.

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Having compared Tywin Lannister and Petyr Baelish house cards, isn't it unusual that the latter has a better effect given that Petyr can steal two power tokens from an opponent after losing whereas they both gain two power tokens after winning a battle?

In the original 2nd edition 6 player arrangement Tywin's effect is unique, however in this variant it isn't, therefore should Tywin's effect be improved, maybe an increase to 4, in future games to properly reflect his strength?

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I am not complaining about the 3 victory points Martell will have after moving Storms End away from the coast, but about the 4 Mustering Points it will have to stick to (in the beginning at least). Of course this is within the average, but you have to take into consideration that most other houses with even or less Mustering Points have a direct chance (by sea) to get at least 5 (for example Greyjoy can try to take Seagard or Targaryen Storms End), whereas Martell won't have the opportunity. His only hope would be to wait for a mistake/chance of his neighbours in Shipbreaker Bay or West Summer Sea.
But with cutting the connection to the Sea of Dorne it will still be possible to conquer Storms End, neither Baratheon nor Targaryen will have a safe support from Shipbreaker Bay. Martell have to invade from Boneway and Cape Wrath and both areas can be easily defended with support from Sea of Dorne. I dont want to make it impossible for Martell, i just want to avoid that Storms End is a safe spot for Martell as it is right now.

All in all I stay with my opinion that Martell would be debuffed too much, instead I suggest to add a small castle to Cape Wrath. This will initially belong to Martell, but can be contested by Targ and Bara by the time. Do you really mean "instead" of removing the connection from Storms End to Sea of Dorne to add a castle, or do you mean "when" removing the connection then adding a castle?

To pick up your idea with the additional castle in the south.
I would suggest to replace Roseroad with a new area called Ashford or Summerhall and give it a small castle.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oje3g5zl07wmjng/Initial_Setup_v3.jpg

I assume a castle in Cape Wrath would belong in 60% to Martell and in 40% of the games to Targaryen.
Castle in a Roseroad with changed borders would belong in 40% to Tyrell in 40% to Baratheon in 20% to Martell.

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

Having compared Tywin Lannister and Petyr Baelish house cards, isn't it unusual that the latter has a better effect given that Petyr can steal two power tokens from an opponent after losing whereas they both gain two power tokens after winning a battle?

In the original 2nd edition 6 player arrangement Tywin's effect is unique, however in this variant it isn't, therefore should Tywin's effect be improved, maybe an increase to 4, in future games to properly reflect his strength?
We already discussed that. But didnt changed anything. Arryn has weak cards. I think its ok when he has one evil card.

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

Hello everyone,

i have updated the overall game statistics:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dluwgccsgxcdo28/Statistics.png

The last game made me sure that i will cut the connection from Storms End to the Sea of Dorne. This will give Baratheon a better position and will make wins a bit harder for Martell.
I've already posted two possible solutions. Do you have other ideas?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yobob117ok2556e/Initial_Setup_v2.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oje3g5zl07wmjng/Initial_Setup_v3.jpg

Second idea to help Greyjoy a little bit against Lannister and maybe reduce the pressure from Greyjoy on Tully.
--> Connecting the Ironmans Bay with Tumblestone.
Do you have better ideas or do you want to keep the map as it is?

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

The map with summer hall giving more chnacest to Tyrell not to Barathoen. Tyrel can have 4 towns in first round. The version with roseroud is good. But im think Storms End bara cannot defending againts Targaryen. I was play one game with Bara units. Im think the best solution give Bara Garsions to SE and Knight unit.

And here is a other problem with cards in Clasic games have bara many battles on the see but here isnt.  And now is Salador card is not working.

I will give him ability Paxter redwayne or Walder frey from version
Dance with Dragons

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And greyjoy can be powerfull if Flint finger will be biiger stronghold. Or I have unusual idea. Give to Greyjoy only 5 knigts units and 8 or 9 ships for a muster.

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