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Lannie85
Protector Of The Realm

Posts: 6,063
Games: 871
Rank Points: 6,222
Member since: 2014-Feb-25

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-29 17:55
Will there be a link to this game to follow? Im interested to play a possible next game. No time atm and there's a queue already right?


deranger
Squire

Posts: 121
Games: 55
Rank Points: 394
Member since: 2016-Mar-30

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-29 17:58
Will there be a link to this game to follow? Im interested to play a possible next game. No time atm and there's a queue already right?
Something like that. The queue seems to be formed strictly based on who showed interest first. The main problems right now are getting the game actually set up (host finding, manipulatable image setting up, rule specification).

Rules as the currently stand:
Click for details.

Players will be randomly assigned a number between 1 and 6. Drafting will be done in a 1,2,3,4,5,6,6,5,4,3,2,1,repeat fashion.

~~Things that take a draft pick~~
* Initially, you may pick a house card, an influence track position, or a capital. Once a capital is selected, the next draft pick a footman or ship may be placed in adjacent an territories or sea.
A. selecting a house card for your deck
B. selecting a position on any of the influence tracks
C. picking your capital(which automatically comes with a garrison of 2, a footman, and a knight) takes a draft turn
Ca. picking a territory to place your footman in (see rules on below)
Cb. picking an adjacent sea or your captial's port to put a ship in or another territory to put a footman in (see rules below, particularly for land locked castles)

~~Additional Rules~~
House Cards
1. Decks must still follow the 0,1,1,2,2,3,4 format
2. Which cards are allowed can be decided game to game (for the first playthrough, I recommend only using the 2nd edition base game cards)

Influence Track Related:
1. You may choose any spot on the influence track, you do not have to pick the top one

Land Related (These need the most specification. In general, I tried to make picking territory first more of an advantage so land might be drafted at a similar time to cards and influence. "----" denotes a discusssion of the rule above it):
1. Any castle or stronghold can be your captial. If it is a castle is immediately upgraded to a stronghold.
---- This is to allow for more diversity in the board and create interesting scenarios
2. All adjacent strongholds are downgraded to castles
---- This is to balance the number of mustering points on the board. Under this system, choosing Flint's Finger, Starfall, Storm's end, or the Eyrie as a capital increases the number of mustering points, while choosing The Reach, Moat Cailin, or any stronghold bordering another stonghold will decrease the number of mustering points on the board. Under this system, the board will contain between 25-34 mustering points, where it usually has 30. I think this keeps the board in acceptable range, and the resource of mustering points being more or less valuable could be interesting.
3. Any coastal capital gets a port if it did not already have one. Any capital bordering two seas gives a choice of which sea their port is connected to, at the time of that capital selection. Port locations cannot be changed if a territory already has a port.
---- Ports are important. This also encourages players trying out new capitals, and choosing a capital bordering two seas give your more options but makes you more vulnerable too.
4. All capitals (even King's Landing or the Eyrie) get a garrison strength of two if chosen as a capital.
5. If the Eyrie or King's Landing are not chosen as a player's start territory, only then do they get their neutral force tokens.
6. No capitals adjacent to territory controlled by another player, except sea (however, non captial placements can be adjacent to another player's non-capital placements)
---- This is to force a little bit of breathing room. Seas are too big, however, and I don't think being able to have THAT much control with a boat should be allowed.
7. Both island strongholds come with a free boat in the adjacent sea if chosen as capitals.
---- Island captials are high risk high reward.
8. If an island stronghold is selected as a capital, the player may place their non-capital footman on any territory that borders the sea surrounding it as long as that territory is not a stronghold
---- Just like the base game
9. If The Reach or Harrenahl (the two landlocked forts) are chosen as a captial, a second footman may be placed in a second adjacent territory instead of a ship. (This costs a draft pick, same as placing the ship).
---- This is to make landlocked strategies viable.
10. Initial supply is determined by the number of barrels started on, as usual
Lannie85
Protector Of The Realm

Posts: 6,063
Games: 871
Rank Points: 6,222
Member since: 2014-Feb-25

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-29 18:44
Ok, thanks, looks interesting. ill follow the game so could you put me in the queue pls?


deranger
Squire

Posts: 121
Games: 55
Rank Points: 394
Member since: 2016-Mar-30

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-29 19:14
Ok, thanks, looks interesting. ill follow the game so could you put me in the queue pls?
There's not actual queue that I'm keeping track of, if it were up to me I'd just grab people by time they comment here. Either way, we'll try to get you in when you want.
Lannie85
Protector Of The Realm

Posts: 6,063
Games: 871
Rank Points: 6,222
Member since: 2014-Feb-25

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-29 20:10
Thanks but the first game is full right?


deranger
Squire

Posts: 121
Games: 55
Rank Points: 394
Member since: 2016-Mar-30

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-29 22:44
Not sure how confirmed everyone is, and things could change between now and when we get it running is all. So we'll see.
rangercardoso
One Of The Kingsguard

Posts: 118
Games: 124
Rank Points: 826
Member since: 2013-Dec-16

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-30 09:26
Great criativity work deranger, congrats   Don't know how the board manipulation is possible, and how the visual setting work, since i have absolutely no experience, but seems there are guys here that can do it! Mostly when it come to change ports and fortications/strongholds. I will not enter in best cards/deck discussion since all cards will be available for draft, but i underline that a lot of people forgot Tyrion, and it is a very good, one of the best defensive cards

Two questions:
- Improving a fortification would mean a possible supply upgrade? And a degrade in adjacent territories? This would change the pick, since having a good initial supply affects strategy. This could also change total supply
- I guess there would be a raffle to chose draft pick order.. the order is the same for cards and capital picks? I did not get, i'm sorry if you already explained that.

I like the general rules, much more diversity than the experiments me and my friends did on board. This has everything to be awesome!

Ok, thanks, looks interesting. ill follow the game so could you put me in the queue pls?
I don't mind give my place to players like Lannie 85, since they gave so much to this community, it would be unfair  to get a seat instead of him.
Keep up the good job and thanks for your time!

Peace
rangercardoso
One Of The Kingsguard

Posts: 118
Games: 124
Rank Points: 826
Member since: 2013-Dec-16

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-30 09:28
lol i did not knew how to use the quote, had to edit two times till i get it right ehehe what a noob
Lannie85
Protector Of The Realm

Posts: 6,063
Games: 871
Rank Points: 6,222
Member since: 2014-Feb-25

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-30 09:57
Very nice of you ranger but wouldnt, im just a player like you and will enter the game when its my turn.


Stannis Baratheon
Knight

Posts: 14
Games: 151
Rank Points: 678
Member since: 2015-Jun-01

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-30 20:54
i really hope im on the queue!... didnt get a message about a game from you..


deranger
Squire

Posts: 121
Games: 55
Rank Points: 394
Member since: 2016-Mar-30

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Oct-30 21:32
Two questions:
- Improving a fortification would mean a possible supply upgrade? And a degrade in adjacent territories? This would change the pick, since having a good initial supply affects strategy. This could also change total supply
- I guess there would be a raffle to chose draft pick order.. the order is the same for cards and capital picks? I did not get, i'm sorry if you already explained that.
- I don't think barrel changes are necessary. It's just something to consider when choosing your starting territory.
- Order would be selected randomly, yes. Note the order of picking would go 1,2,3,4,5,6,6,5,4,3,2,1,repeat. Cards, board locations, and influence would be drafted at the same time, so you have to decide if you think locking down a card or a board location or an influence track location is the most important remaining thing each time you pick.

i really hope im on the queue!... didnt get a message about a game from you..
I don't think anyone's messaged anyone yet. Gotta figure out how we'll do this before we can figure out who's in.
Bukavu
Blacksmith's Apprentice

Posts: 142
Games: 31
Rank Points: 80
Member since: 2016-Sep-15

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Nov-03 06:42
I'll be happy to mod a game, starting after I get back home on Wednesday. We could certainly have the players picked and start the draft now though.  Let me know and I am happy to coordinate it


Bukavu
Blacksmith's Apprentice

Posts: 142
Games: 31
Rank Points: 80
Member since: 2016-Sep-15

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Nov-03 06:45
As to order of picking, I would do a random draw and allow the first player to choose his draft slot, 1-6, knowing the order would snake back and forth as described earlier. 1,2,3,4,5,6,6,5,4,3,2,1,1,2, and so on.


Merlo Piccante
Official Shoutbox Spammer

Posts: 2,416
Games: 203
Rank Points: 880
Member since: 2015-Jun-11

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Nov-04 09:38
Hi guys, I didn't read the whole thread because I just found it. I played really a lot of games in real life with draft and I tried a lot of schemes. The first one we tried was the one you're using and it was a BAD experience: the player 6 and 1 will have a great advantage choosing everytime what they want for two consecutive times.
Let's start by saying that we have 66 draftable things (6 starting positions, 18 positions on the influence tracks and 42 House Cards) and that AT LEAST 15 of them are very powerful, this is an example of what can happen in the first two or three (but it will continue even with any another mediocre and draftable item, such as the Blackfish or the fourth place on the King's Court) rounds of draft:

Player 1 chooses Balon Greyjoy;
Player 2 chooses Victarion Greyjoy;
Player 3 chooses first place on King's Court;
Player 4 chooses the Red Viper;
Player 5 chooses first place on Fiefdoms;
Player 6 chooses Loras Tyrell;
Player 6 chooses Roose Bolton.

This is an example but there are more than one way for the sixth player to combine a good coombo with the first consecutive choice: in this case he choose to have the possibility to use 5 marches combining Loras and Roose, but he could have chosen Victarion+Salladhor, the first places on both Fiefdoms and King's Court.
He's the last to choose, right, but he has the chance to look at what the other players are doing, build a strategy and, since he'll always have the possibility to chose among more than 10 good elements, take a very nice advantage from this everytime. The only scheme that satifsfies me and my game group is the following one:

123456
465321
312564
546213
231645
654132
123456

It seems to be very balanced, because there aren't conscutive draws among players and everybody chooses something as last player.
deranger
Squire

Posts: 121
Games: 55
Rank Points: 394
Member since: 2016-Mar-30

Topic: Draft Variant Concept
Posted: 2016-Nov-05 00:10
Interesting. One counter point to that is that Loras and Roose should not be available that late in the pick, and there are multiple killer combos. I also think your example pick order is the fault of the first 5 players, but that's almost semantics.

I do see your point about the strength of concurrent picks. I was thinking that after the first 12 picks, the order would be randomized again, but the first few picks will likely be the most important, and it still leaves a back to back pick.

I don't know which way I lean toward. 1-6,6-1 is a bit simpler, but there's a definite pitfall (though I don't think as bad as your example).

Also, There are more than 66 draftable things due to the added freedom to starting spots.

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