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Lord Crook	1 h 51 min ago
Sorry accidentally aborted

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3 up

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2/3 live up

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2/3

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3p live up

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3p live up

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one more needed for war

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Anyone 3p live?

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beginner game still need 2 players seemingly

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Community Forum

Forums > Help Forum / Rules Questions / FAQ > Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"

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☠ Dele✝ed User

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Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 00:17

Hi guys,

the following situation occured (3p):
It's Bara's turn, Stark's turn afterwards.
a) House Stark is on 5 castles and has a march order to gain two unoccupied Bara areas (CCP & KL, he's controlling the sea) to win immediately with 7 castles.
b) House Baratheon is basically defeated and has March Orders in Blackwater and the Reach. He is able to put units to KL. Stark will not be able to get KL if he does.
c) House Lannister is on 5 castles and has March Orders in Searoad Marches and Harrenhal. He will get to 6 castles by taking the Reach as Baratheon can't withstand there, however he won't get to 7 castles as Stark can occupy CCP before him and has the support orders to definitely defend it.

So basically: House Baratheon has to take a unit to KL to prevent Stark from winning immediately. House Lannister cannot win the game in this turn. There are no march orders affecting Flint's Finger, Moat Cailin or Seagard.

Bara's turn: He takes a knight from Seagard to the Reach, stating it's his right for revenge against Lanni. In the next turn, Stark moves his units to CCP & KL to immediately win the game.

Question: Is this within the rules or kingsmaking?
I can't post the game link here officially, right?

Best regards

☠ Dele✝ed User

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Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 00:32

I've just made a screenshot of the situation, players are anonymous so it should be fine - please remove if I'm wrong.

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190211/ps4zc7mv.jpg

OlBeadyeyes
^Squire

Posts: 23
Games: 57
Rank Points: 333
Member since: 2018-Jul-09

Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 08:10

Surely he should be revenging himself against Stark, seeing as that player controls Dragonstone? I don't really see how this isn't kingmaking.

ajant
^{Blacksmith's Apprentice}

Posts: 148
Games: 34
Rank Points: 88
Member since: 2014-May-31

Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 08:45

first of all, if i remember correctly, intention to get revenge needs to be publicly declared in advance, not after order tokens have already been set. next revenge is allowed when you get back-stabbed by someone, not when you get beat by someone in a fair fight and since in 3p game alliances are not allowed, i'm not sure revenge should be a possibility. finally i'm not even sure how to distinguish between revenge and km in a 3p game. in games with more players it is usually possible to get revenge by aggressively attacking a player without throwing the game for others, but in 3p game, declaring revenge essentially means playing 2 vs 1 which is forbidden

My kung fu is the best

JR90
^{Queen in the North}

Posts: 1,112
Games: 175
Rank Points: 532
Member since: 2017-Aug-29

Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 11:39

intention to get revenge needs to be publicly declared in advance, not after order tokens have already been set.
Not exactly ajant.

Still, with only these screenshots its hard to evaluate if revenge applies. The exception for revenge

c) If you want to take revenge on another player for backstabbing or unfairly attacking you, you must declare your revenge in the chat as justification for not stopping the winning player, or supporting him in a battle in a situation under 2a).
implies you were back stabbed - which in a 3p game its hard to exist since no alliances are allowed - or unfairly attacked - for example, he prefers to attack you instead of stopping the winning player, putting all the 'weight' on you to stop the winning player. Since in a 3p game you can coordinate to stop the leading player, you might also get fooled/back stabbed if both coordinate on something to stop the player but then get attacked.

So we would need more info to judge this. Please fill up a proper report (https://www.thronemaster.net/?goto=gaming&sub=report_a_player) if you want the situation to be clarified and we can always share with you all what came out of it

Last edited by JR90 on 2019-Feb-11 11:40, edited 1x in total

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Nomaris
^{Maester without a chain}

Posts: 2,460
Games: 389
Rank Points: 2,611
Member since: 2017-May-19

Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 12:07

Judging on the info we see here, I would say this is kingmaking, since:

-) it is not round 10, and nobody wins yet, if Bara puts a knight into KL.
-) I can't see how going to KL would be detrimental for Bara, who already is in a bad position, but maybe better off in round 10 when going to KL.
-) The only kind of “revenge“ Bara takes on Lanni is letting Stark win, that's really spoiling the game.

“The only way to treat disease is to understand disease.“

☠ Dele✝ed User

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Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 19:40

Thanks for your opinions! I've made a report, however after posting it, I needed to login again so I'm not sure whether it was sent. Can I check this anywhere?

Lannie85
^{Protector Of The Realm}

Posts: 6,063
Games: 871
Rank Points: 6,222
Member since: 2014-Feb-25

Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 19:52

Cant find a report of yours millbiller.

Sorry if I didn't respond to your message(s), thats not intentional!

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ElPopelos
^{Keeper of the Forbidden Wilds}

Posts: 3,874
Games: 179
Rank Points: 1,271
Member since: 2013-Feb-01

Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 20:27

very good case millbiller and very good screenshot of yours!

Nomaris kinda summed it up perfectly.
You cant just declare revenge to justify your Kingmaking. There must be a very good reason to do so as JR90 explained.

From the infos i gathered from your explanation and screenshots, this is a clear Kingmaking to me.

"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." , Terry Pratchett

☠ Dele✝ed User

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Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Feb-11 22:51

Cant find a report of yours millbiller.
Thanks, it has been delivered this time.

frozennickyz
^{Warden Of The North}

Posts: 9
Games: 303
Rank Points: 1,757
Member since: 2019-Feb-19

Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Mar-04 15:53

ive been through some 3p games and most of them did occur the situation of 2vs1 becuz the geografic difference and players‘ understanding of this game. is it forbbidon or just say so？

valar morgulius

☠ Dele✝ed User

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Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Mar-04 17:00

It's not kingmaking. Bara has to chouse the winner.
If he defend against Stark, Lannister wins and that's kingmaking too.
There's no way out of this, and maybe Baratheon don't like Lannister

Harakon
^{Grandmaester of Reports}

Posts: 3,634
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Member since: 2014-Aug-24

Topic: Kingsmaking vs. "Revenge"
Posted: 2019-Mar-04 18:03

ive been through some 3p games and most of them did occur the situation of 2vs1 becuz the geografic difference and players‘ understanding of this game. is it forbbidon or just say so？
Everyone in a 3p is facing 2 vs 1. Only if there is a made alliance this is not the case and THIS is forbidden.

AFFC PBF - #10
You do not need to know everything, but where to read it.-Albert Einstein-

Reading is overrated.-sarcasm off-

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