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ajant
Blacksmith's Apprentice

Posts: 148
Games: 34
Rank Points: 88
Member since: 2014-May-31

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-08 21:12
I've not read the books. I've watched the show and played this game. While show is nice, its depth is significantly inferior to the depth of books. I was wondering about the rationale of some of the card statistics & abilities based on the lore. For instance it's pretty obvious why Ser Gregor Clegane has strength 3 and 3 swords, but Mace Tyrell on the other hand mostly served as comic relief in the show, yet here his card has strength 4 and in addition to that also immediately kills a footman. Could people who have read the books give rationale for some cards. Why would Balon nullify opponent's strength? Why would Roos Bolton Reset your discard pile etc.?

Obviously this thread is gonna be full of spoilers, so people planning on reading the books should probably steer clear


Nomaris
Maester without a chain

Posts: 2,463
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Member since: 2017-May-19

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-08 22:44
Roose Bolton:
I think his ability refers to the battle of the first season/book, where he fought (and lost) against Tywin Lannister with his inferior forces, whilst the main stark host under Robb Stark was free to attack Jamie Lannister in the Whispering wood. This battle was also referred to by Jamie in Season 7 Episode 3.

Theon Greyjoy:
His ability likely refers to his short reign as Lord of Winterfell. His determination to hold Winterfell makes him more dangerous whilst defending the castle.


PhantasticPhil
Hand Of The King

Posts: 205
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Member since: 2016-Jun-23

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-08 23:29
Mace tyrells ability maybe refers to the siege of storms end during roberts rebellion ... he laid siege to the castle hold by stannis and only with the help of davos not the whole garrison died


Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

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Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-09 00:18
Roose's ability is definitely a reference to his role in the first book, to fight a battle he had no intention of winning in order to Stark victory elsewhere.

Mace's ability is a bit of a head scratcher.  They aren't even much of a stickler for having the heads of the house be the 4 card (see: Doran/Balon), and I can't figure out where the footman thing comes from lorewise.  His lone military claim to fame is the unsuccessful siege of Storm's End, which some suspect was intentional, a way of effectively sitting out the war without alienating either potential winner too much. I think a more accurate ability to reflect that would maybe be that if you are attack and lose the combat, your units are not routed on the retreat. That may be less useful than the footman ability, though.

The one that really bothers me is why Patchface has the ability that clearly should be Melisandre's.
☠ Dele✝ed User

One disappeared.
One came back from the dead.

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-13 00:36
Indeed, King Roose's capability rises from his described abilitiy to launch a distracting attack on the son of Lord Tytos and regroup at Harrenhal (with the "foraging" Brave Companions, which cut Jamie's hand off not "Locke" ) as well as to be able to give the remaining Starks (Robb and Catelyn) the idea that Winterfell (and, thus, the north) is their trusted "backyard" (before the RW) once Victarion is removed from Moat Cailin. Nevertheless, he's able to gather some 4tsd men (un-/horsed by bringing the Karstarks into his fold) just before Grey Wind is hauling at the Frey's welcome-sharade in front of the Twins.

Mace's ability, on the contrary, is not questionable but wrong. His "3" plus 2 swords in the 1st GoT edition already didn't make sense like his "4" in the 2nd ed. as well as his text-ability, because everything he did was Randyll Tarly's (or if you allow it the Redwyne's) achievement, but not his.

Furthermore, Balon's death is a lot earlier (SoS) than the TV-show (s6) suggests. This really is a bit obscure, because Asha`s (who should be on 4!), Euron's (who should be on 2) and Theon's (2+1 or 0 ADWD) (before and after being the 2nd Reek) tales do not indicate any justifications with regard to "zeroing" his opponent card's fighting strength besides him saying that "the tide is rising" at a later part of book two.
Lord Hightower
Voice of Oldtown

Posts: 508
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Member since: 2015-Nov-23

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-13 10:06
Even though there are some instances of the characters having abilities here that match their personality traits/actions in the books or the show, I think we should not overthink them.

For instance, when the war of the five kings started (not 6, 5 to begin with), Ned Stark was already dead, and Renly never fought for the case of Stannis. Neither did Brienne.

So there are cases like Ser Gregor, as you mentioned it earlier, where everything lines up, but the game is not a clear rpresentation of the events in the books/show.


Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

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Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-13 19:39
Cat's ability would make more sense if it boosted support instead of defense, to reflect her rallying her father's bannermen to seize Tyrion. But combined with Roose, it would overpower Stark to have Cat be an actually effective counter to Balon/Victarion. T

he Blackfish's is perfect, as he manages to escape both the Red Wedding and (in the books) the fall of Riverrun with his life.
Harakon
Grandmaester of Reports

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Member since: 2014-Aug-24

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-13 19:42

The Blackfish's is perfect, as he manages to escape both the Red Wedding and (in the books) the fall of Riverrun with his life.

I always thought of his ability on his role as scout and Robbs eyes and ears in terms of military intelligence


Lord Hightower
Voice of Oldtown

Posts: 508
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Member since: 2015-Nov-23

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-13 21:03
The Blackfish's is perfect, as he manages to escape both the Red Wedding and (in the books) the fall of Riverrun with his life.
He did not go to the Red Wedding though, he remained in Riverrun.


Lord Hightower
Voice of Oldtown

Posts: 508
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Member since: 2015-Nov-23

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-13 21:25
Robb Stark's routing ability might reflect the battles of the Whispering Wood and the Battle of the Fords fiasco - the first was when he ambushed Jaime after allying with the Freys to get into a position to surprise the Lannister army, the second when trying to lure Tywin's army into the Westerlands where they found a mountain passage which would have enabled them to ambush the Lannister army from an unexpected direction, but that was messed up by Edmure who wasn't informed about the intention of Robb's actions and delayed Tywin's march.

Asha Greyjoy's ability might reflect that because she is a woman, she is not supported by the Ironborn (except for her own crew and a very few others), neither as a commander, nor as a ruler in the Kingsmoot, and that gives her that extra drive to prove them wrong.

Victarion Greyjoy is the Captain of the Iron Fleet in the books, so it's kinda obvious.

These are the ones that I could come up with, the others, like sword icons and tower icons are pretty much obvious (except for Melisandre, I don't know why she has a sword, but whatever).


PhantasticPhil
Hand Of The King

Posts: 205
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Member since: 2016-Jun-23

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-13 21:45
i thought about the hound why would he have two tower icons

my idea now is, that each one stands for the protection of one of the stark daugthers


Harakon
Grandmaester of Reports

Posts: 3,634
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Member since: 2014-Aug-24

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-13 22:18
Or simply because of game balance reasons^^

The most problem I have with is Balons ability, because I cant find any reasoning but : Because reasons


PhantasticPhil
Hand Of The King

Posts: 205
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Member since: 2016-Jun-23

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-13 23:01
True you could pretty much swap kevan jaime and hound card and it wouldnt change anything in terms of "stay true to the character"


Ser Hodor
Son Of Hodor

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Member since: 2016-Mar-20

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-14 02:51
Cersei's ability seems inspired by her tearing up the decree naming Ned regent after she won the "battle" around Joffrey's succession.

I presume Renly's is also loosely tied to his raising of Brienne to the Kingsguard.
☠ Dele✝ed User

One disappeared.
One came back from the dead.

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-17 01:09
Inasmuch as there certainly were deliberations of balancing the game flow in play, I kind of are under the impression that all text and icon abilities more or less got connected to the tales being told in the first three books (even Mace's). If one wishes to look up the specific reasoning behind the chosen characters as well as their intermediate abilities, a consultation of the contained chapters should be sufficient in order to accomplish that goal.

Regarding the given statements above, I do think that Cersei's ability simply derives from the fact that she has the most spies at hand. Having said that, she frequently makes use of Littlefinger's and Vary's channels too, which promotes her, besides being queen and queen regent, to a level of being the queen of information. She even (not described, only mentioned) managed to convince the Mad King to make Jaime a member of the kingsguard despite the explicit pursuit of Tywin to keep Jaime as heir to Casterly Rock when serving as Aerys' hand. Therefore, she also is the reason why Lannister is equipped with the raven when our game starts.

Renly's ability surely can be associated to Brienne's promotion but she was a fighter all along. I'd rather suggest that his card's lore mainly reflects that he becomes constantly attributed as the most inspiring personality in King's Landing. Furthermore, the small folk everywhere in Westeros keeps telling the story that his ghost defeated Stannis' troops during the Battle of Blackwater rather than Tywin and Loras.

Concerning Sandor's two fortification icons, the connection to the Stark girls (PhantasticPhil^^) is just striking. Nonetheless, his story line rather suggests that his ability was determined due to the circumstance that he literally is able to survive just everything (starting with his mutilation by Gregor when being a child as well as when remembering Beric's judgement on behalf of R'hllor and keeping in mind that Berric frequently gets referred to as being one of the best swordsmen alive at that time). If there is a succeeding version of his card in the near future he should have three towers or an additional sword at the least.

Lord Hightower's (^^) estimation of Robb's ability as well as the given explanations for Theon and Brynden by Nomaris and Harakon (^^) seem about comprehensible. My humble self would disagree with Asha's description though. "Because she is a woman", is kind of a, let's say, questionable interpretation and not backed by the books' narrative (as well as the other way around - "Because he's a man" or "Because he's a king" or "Because she's a halfwit" ). It might be stated somewhere once in a while as something that has to be said but it rather does not serve as a real argument. (To make myself comprehensive here: Tyrion constantly is mocked for his appearance, he nevertheless remains the most influencing character in the whole narration. Taking the mocking statements word by word would not serve the estimation of his impact at all, would it?) Besides, Asha commands 30 ships for the attack on Deepwood Motte and is being followed by all.

Melisandre is easily to be mistaken. If I read our dear Ser Hodor right, you might think about the shadow scene with Davos and Renly on behalf of Stannis' ambition only. That certainly is part of the sword ascription and, however, could lead to the conclusion that Patches' ability should be hers. The clue here might be that she is a killer (no matter how high born) indeed, but she never swings the sword herself (which seems to be the reason that the fighting strength remains on one).
Lord Hightower
Voice of Oldtown

Posts: 508
Games: 165
Rank Points: 941
Member since: 2015-Nov-23

Topic: Connection between game cards & lore
Posted: 2017-Aug-18 07:51
Asha: about Asha's ability, my reasoning was more about the Kingsmoot, and it was explicitly stated multiple times that her being a woman is the main reason people were not going to support her claim. About Tyrion: yes, he is influential, but the people resented him everywhere. He was talented in governing/finances, and yet, people only saw the negatives about him, no matter what. Because he is a dwarf.

I know it's hard to come to terms with someone being discriminated based on gender, the way our societies are these days, (and I szpport gender equality, don't misunderstand), but the setting of ASoIaF is different. It's an authentic medieval European society except for the magic and stuff of course.



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