Having played another few games with stark since the importance of the shivering sea has burned itself into my mind with an intensity that will thankfully never go away.

That being said a couple of things spring to mind:

1. You are in trouble if baratheon gets the blade. They get a lot of flack for their house cards but so many of them just add that extra point of combat strength that the blade on top makes it very hard to hold the narrow sea - especially if support/defence orders are not allowed this turn.

2. If you can put 3 ships in the shivering sea and take the eyrie, between the eyrie and karhold you never need to occupy Castle black and can delay mustering a ship in bay of ice. Without web of lies the North becomes a very tough nut for greyjoy to crack.

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Not today.

In this Stark game [1] I get stomped by GJ. I am trying to figure out my major mistakes:
1. Turn 4, I should have played 3 march orders to take back Winterfell, but is that possible with strong support from Stony Shore?
2. Turn 3 GJ gets Stony Shore. I don't see any decent way to prevent that with no raids allowed, right?
3. Turn 3 I am missing out on CP in Eyrie, but a Siege + a Footman is too much to CP, isn't it?
4. Leaving a token in white harbor/mountains of the moon was unnecessary maybe? They gave me footman and supply immediately though.

Any tips are appreciated! What are my major 1-2 mistakes in your opinion?

[1] https://game.thronemaster.net/?game=262605&review=1

I am having a typical Stark defense in World Cup, against a decent Grey. Kind of applied all the "best practice", and at turn 9, the garrison of Winterfell still lives.

It's still in progress, so please don't comment on current or last turn moves, still, the general behaviour can be seen as useful.

https://game.thronemaster.net/?game=261466

The basics are :
- Stay ahead of Grey on throne. Not a single turn he could put S in BoI due to R in port, and an S in BoI is deadly with Victarion. Same when he took MC, he could not R WH because of an R in Narrow. It's very counter-intuitive, as Stark usually is happy being late in turn order, but Grey is benefitting so much of being ahead that it is better to spend a bit on IT. And if he overspends to take over, he won't have blade / stars
- The only case not to R there is if you can ensure to push back Grey out of BoI. Rare case.
- Pile up one or 2 KN in WH and put there your highest support. Protects / attacks both WF / MC, the two bottlenecks of your defense.
- The other key S area is Shivering with 3 ships. Protects WF, WH and Narrow - if you get sandwiched by Bara, it's even worse.
- The ship in WH proved very useful for CP-ing in addition to Karhold and Eyrié.
- Roose is cool, but it tends to generate losses of units. Same for Siege Engines. Keep your units alive.
- Every turn, compute the max power (including +2 for Balon, +1 for sword, etc.) Grey can send in your face. Adjust orders never to lose WF.
- And every time you can, cry to Tyrell and Lanni for help, they might come in finally and save your frozen ass
- Be lucky with Westeros/Wildling cards. The more musters are present, the better for the Greyjoy. The more CoKs, and if possible not early, the better for you : you have less to start but generate more. Cards like WoL or SoSt (no raid) are hard to handle.

A 1v1 vs a Grey is always a BIG challenge.

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As for yours, Tom, you're not playing a bad game, keep going. Stark can lose Winterfell and still win.

---

Judge
LoI&F: Seasons 10 and 11 King
France WCup team
2021: Bronze
2022: Silver

I am having a typical Stark defense in World Cup, against a decent Grey. Kind of applied all the "best practice", and at turn 9, the garrison of Winterfell still lives.

It's still in progress, so please don't comment on current or last turn moves, still, the general behaviour can be seen as useful.

https://game.thronemaster.net/?game=261466

The basics are :
- Stay ahead of Grey on throne. Not a single turn he could put S in BoI due to R in port, and an S in BoI is deadly with Victarion. Same when he took MC, he could not R WH because of an R in Narrow. It's very counter-intuitive, as Stark usually is happy being late in turn order, but Grey is benefitting so much of being ahead that it is better to spend a bit on IT. And if he overspends to take over, he won't have blade / stars
- The only case not to R there is if you can ensure to push back Grey out of BoI. Rare case.
- Pile up one or 2 KN in WH and put there your highest support. Protects / attacks both WF / MC, the two bottlenecks of your defense.
- The other key S area is Shivering with 3 ships. Protects WF, WH and Narrow - if you get sandwiched by Bara, it's even worse.
- The ship in WH proved very useful for CP-ing in addition to Karhold and Eyrié.
- Roose is cool, but it tends to generate losses of units. Same for Siege Engines. Keep your units alive.
- Every turn, compute the max power (including +2 for Balon, +1 for sword, etc.) Grey can send in your face. Adjust orders never to lose WF.
- And every time you can, cry to Tyrell and Lanni for help, they might come in finally and save your frozen ass
- Be lucky with Westeros/Wildling cards. The more musters are present, the better for the Greyjoy. The more CoKs, and if possible not early, the better for you : you have less to start but generate more. Cards like WoL or SoSt (no raid) are hard to handle.

A 1v1 vs a Grey is always a BIG challenge.

---

As for yours, Tom, you're not playing a bad game, keep going. Stark can lose Winterfell and still win.
Oh great, you watched it! Thanks a lot! I was reading all your good advice and felt like I followed all of it and still lost badly. Of course there are things that I could not prevent, but I was having doubts if I missed things or made crucial mistakes.

Sooo....when a turn 2~3 muster comes up and as a stark player you're on 5~7 tokens when the other houses are on 8~12 where should we spend our money?

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Not today.

Muster or CoK ?

If CoK, usually you don't take the IT, but favor a defensive sword. However, as everyone knows it, and the Martell is often in the same position, someone can out-bid you on sword and you're left with nothing.

So as a standard, you go for sword, but sometimes you have to bluff. Who takes the Throne is good info, and how Grey has started also. A "KL first" Bara sucks as he loses PT supremacy, so that's the best thing that can happen to you.

---

Judge
LoI&F: Seasons 10 and 11 King
France WCup team
2021: Bronze
2022: Silver

When I'm playing Stark,I always lost BOI,MC,SS,and CB.How can I protect them?

BOI not as important as Narrow sea. Just think of all the land areas that connect Narrow to the north. If you decide to protect BOI, it comes at the cost of mustering too many ships in west side that will lead to losing Narrow Sea on the east side, and potentially all of the North. MC can be protected with support from White harbor. SS does not matter so much, and CB support from Shivering sea. Cheers

Last edited by Mandy Storm on 2022-Mar-19 13:20, edited 1x in total

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I will take what is mine with Fire and Love and give it back with desire from above. No need to shove. It's just LOVE.

One thing that does matter more than it looks like - Stoney Shore.  The barrel can be easily found elsewhere, but if GJ gets Stoney and ahead of you on the Iron Throne, you are in serious trouble.  They park a seige engine there with a permanent support order, protect it with a raid order from the sea and it doesn't matter how many times you take Winterfell back. They just keep retaking it with any small troop on hand.

Yea but if GJ goes first, and Stark has a star order, then that means stark goes last. Stark can counter by supporting Winterfell with a siege from White Harbor and will end up holding WF on last march going in to next round

Last edited by Mandy Storm on 2022-Apr-01 19:04, edited 1x in total

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I will take what is mine with Fire and Love and give it back with desire from above. No need to shove. It's just LOVE.

I agree with Mandy here. Also Greyjoy will always lose troops when facing Eddard. It is not that tricky to always reclaim WF and in most cases GJ won´t even take it. Also Robb can cause annoying supply problems when you want to save Eddard.

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fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me

One of the key issues for Stark is that he wants to play before Grey but after Bara to avoid super Stannis. Throne, as often is key.

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Judge
LoI&F: Seasons 10 and 11 King
France WCup team
2021: Bronze
2022: Silver