Its a difficult decision. You wont find a solutition in any FAQ because Khal Drogo is a fanmade housecard. This night or tomorrow i'll read the rulesbooks/faqs and will search for similiar problems and then will make a decision.

But please continue sharing your point of views. Perhaps a poll could also a solution.

I'll write later more.

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

I have looked through the rulebook & faq but couldnt find a sufficient solution. You can argue in different ways:


1. The effect of the housecard are handled in the order of the ironthrone track. So if Khal Drogos effect plots first, all Targaryen units would have to leave this area due to Arianne. In the other case that Martell is ahead, the unit which was taken over by Khal Drogo could remain in the embattled area.

2. You can argue that the effect of the housecards dont not trigger at the same time. In the rulebook there are 4 phases of how to resolute the combat (1. Determine Victor 2.Casulties 3.Retreat&Routing 4.Combat Clean up). In this case Khal Drogo would always trigger before Arianne so that the new Targaryen unit would have to leave the embattled area too.

3. Arianne only prevents that the opponent can move new units into the embattled area. But when the unit is taken over, then the unit have already been to this area and could stay.

4. The original aim with the effect of the Arianne housecard was that nobody can enter the embattled area and the area remains empty. Khal Drogo is a new housecard with a completly new effect which wasnt regarded in the formulation of the housecard.


I think we should not focus on how you interpret the rules, because we wont find a clear solution. I want to focus on how you would like to have the rules, regardless from the situation on the board and regardless how you would profit more (we can redraw the housecards, or reject the attack if the rules have changed).
Its a custom game with customs cards so we can adjust the rules ourself.

Please vote for one of these options:

[1] - The result depends on the order in the Ironthrone track
[2] - The Targaryen unit which was gained by Khal Drogo can stay in the embattled area in every case
[3] - No Targaryen unit is allowed to enter/remain in the embattled area in every case

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

I vote for option [3].

My interpretation uncoupled from the rulebook: When there is a battle of Sunspear, then the attacker must have to been already in the embattled area otherwise there wouldnt have been a fight. After the battle Targaryen take over a unit which surrendered or switched the sides. Arianne for some how arranges politically or in another way that the attacking troops do not enter the embattled area despite they have won the battle. The new gained unit leaves the embattled area with the units which initiated the battle.

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

wow, great discussion.
thx el_diablo for taking so much time for it and think about it.

i just go to bed now, but here my order:
footman to the vale. 1 footman stay.
knight attacks fingers: 6 vs 1 = i win

HC send to El_Diablo

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"Loras is a living legend. Half the girls in the Seven Kingdoms want to bed him" - Tyrion

the other 50% wants to do it again - Loras, Knight of the Flowers, High Marshal of the Reach

I have to think about it, but thx so far. Checking back in some hours after having had some more sleep

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Life in Westeros is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.

El_Diablo, it's nice summary, but I am still convinced that this ship should stay in ESS, regardless of IT track order - Arianne HC effect always refers to ships moving in (imho argument no. 1 is false)

before making final decision please look back to my previous arguments. If Arianne predominate in every case (with Khal too) Targaryen is always fucked, especially when he is to discard his ships due to supply limit. To (partly) overcome  Arianne, Targaryen is already paying a big price (using the highest HC, risking that Martell just uses a HC with fortification)

there is also another argument based more on general rules. it is not uncommon that there are HC acting as HC cancelling the effect of the enemy HC. in this case Khal is not canceling the effect of Arianne but he bypasses it (not totally but still)using his unique skill.

interpretation outside rulebook (according to your approach):
Martell ship switches sides and thus Arianne is totally surprised and shocked; with any other commander she would prove her superb diplomatic skills but not with Khal Drogo, not with him, the man outside the Westeros, with other thinking, that always has an ace in his sleeve (btw. accordingly to order Khal is the strongest HC of Targaryens)

when there are doubts, we shouldn't philosophize but stick to the simplest interpretation of HC text. with that approach logic states the obvious: one ship is geting back to Shipbreaker Bay, one ship stays on ESS.
Arianne/Khal has no less, no more skills that are written on their house cards.

Last edited by ThyLear on 2013-May-25 11:30, edited 5x in total

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As a well-spent day brings happy sleep, so a life well spent brings happy death. LDV

So Martell can only play that card vs Tyrell to have its full effect triggered... That is bitter. Be aware that our hosts can interpret the FANmade card in their own way and forge an own rule.
Why not depend it on one of the tracks for future cases? It would be cool if Martell was in front but could lose that position in a upcoming clash.

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Life in Westeros is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.

I am more inclined to agree with TheLear's interpretation of the house cards. Arianne is still a very powerfull card and effective against every other housecard played by Tyrell, Baratheon or Targarayen. We also don't know if the creator of the new house card meant Drogo to be a counter too Arianne.


Also: If we decide that TheLears interpretation was wrong we should rewind the actions to the point where Tyrell attacked Martell with his ship.

Last edited by Etuel on 2013-May-25 11:16, edited 2x in total

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~ Not every Lannister is fool for glory ~

I choose Petyr Baelish.

If possible my footman retreat to The Mountains.

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I vote for option [3].

I think Drogos effect takes action during an earlier phase of the battle. So the MT ship become a TG ship and after that all units have to retreat because of Ariannes effect.

And i agree with Etuel that in case we interpret it this way Thylear should have the possibility to make a different movement.

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i took rickard karstark, who has a sword.
so your footman is dead, but you get 2 tokens from me.

next and last move this round: TULLY

send your CP orders!

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"Loras is a living legend. Half the girls in the Seven Kingdoms want to bed him" - Tyrion

the other 50% wants to do it again - Loras, Knight of the Flowers, High Marshal of the Reach

I play Stannis himself.

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~ A Lannister Always Pays His Debts

i agree with ThyLears explenations:
the HC text are clear. Targaryen is first on ironthrone so he takes over 1 ship. arianne HC says that ships cannot move in (what the new ship doesnt do) and that it returns to area where it came from (new ship didnt come from anywhere)


Arianne is still a very powerfull card and effective against every other housecard played by Tyrell, Baratheon or Targarayen. We also don't know if the creator of the new house card meant Drogo to be a counter too Arianne.
its normal that some powerful cards can be overcome by another card. for example arianne is the only 1 that can stop lloras second march. so i think Khal Drogo should be the only 1 that can conquer an area against arianne.

but i'm not 100% sure what the creator thought about this. why did he use the word "immediatly" in Drogos HC? maybe to get sure that first the enemy becomes Targaryen, and Ariannes ability allways works against Drogo (regardless of fiefdoms track). if an army retreat it cannot retreat to 2 areas but allways 1 - so the army has to stay together, the new ship joins the ships that has to come back.

i vote for 2.

but for me its not so important. if the majority is for 3 its fine. martell and targaryen has both awesome HC. if we choose option 3 the HC text should be changed.

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"Loras is a living legend. Half the girls in the Seven Kingdoms want to bed him" - Tyrion

the other 50% wants to do it again - Loras, Knight of the Flowers, High Marshal of the Reach

Tully played Edmure Tully.

its 6:5. where do you retreat baratheon?

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"Loras is a living legend. Half the girls in the Seven Kingdoms want to bed him" - Tyrion

the other 50% wants to do it again - Loras, Knight of the Flowers, High Marshal of the Reach